DikuMUD may be the foundation of the mmo revolution we seek

[MarcusD]

Everyone always asks why EQ was so good and addicting and immersive. Mabye instead of repairing it without having all the tools it was created with, we go back to the source that EQ used. Some of you know this some probably don't but it seems very likely that EQ used DikuMUD source code to write everquest. Mabye the best project we could have is to figure out exactly how EQ was created so we can create our own game just like how 989 created EQ. Maybe that is the element missing. You can't build a better ferrari with scrap ferrari parts. You have to learn how ferrari builds its own cars, then make your own in a similar process.

So lets say EQ used dikumud's source code and then somehow through a gui onto it and blammo EQ was made. Mabye it is simpler than we think to do this the professional way and carry on the true legacy of EQ and do it proud.

It has been proposed by Raph Koster (lead designer of Ultima Online and chief creative officer of EverQuest II) that Diku has resulted in the greatest proliferation of gameworlds due to being the easiest to set up and use.[14][15] He further pointed out that "Diku codebases did eventually popularize many of the major developments in muds",[16] and that the Diku gameplay provided inspiration for numerous MMORPGs, including EverQuest, World of Warcraft and Ultima Online.[17]

[provocating]

You are trolling at this point.

[MarcusD]

It is the only real way forward. I will help adriand to learn about the nuts and bolts of the game but best case scenario reworking the database would get us a product like p99 bugs and all. I think for the same amount of work we could make a new game and engine that is better than eq. There aren't any tools 989 had 19 years ago that we don't have. I don't mind hard work but I would rather save myself 12,000 hours wasted time if possible, and use that time to build something right instead of a hackjob.

[chrsschb]

It is the only real way forward. I will help adriand to learn about the nuts and bolts of the game but best case scenario reworking the database would get us a product like p99 bugs and all. I think for the same amount of work we could make a new game and engine that is better than eq. There aren't any tools 989 had 19 years ago that we don't have.

I'm not having any problems creating the game I want using the tools and resources already available to me. But hey man, you're more than welcome to recreate the wheel.

[Cilraaz]

I'm not having any problems creating the game I want using the tools and resources already available to me. But hey man, you're more than welcome to recreate the wheel.

Gonna be tough to reinvent the wheel without any coding or database knowledge, though.

[chrsschb]

Gonna be tough to reinvent the wheel without any coding or database knowledge, though.

http://i.imgur.com/g29ElC4.gif

[MarcusD]

Gonna be tough to reinvent the wheel without any coding or database knowledge, though.

My quest is to reverse engineer everquest and the deeper back you go the easier it is to learn. Do you suggest I learn coding by looking at eq code or dikumud code? Dikumud is a large step more basic. Its the difference of learning to speak japanese vs trying to learn japanese from encrypted messages.

[chrsschb]

My quest is to reverse engineer everquest and the deeper back you go the easier it is to learn. Do you suggest I learn coding by looking at eq code or dikumud code? Dikumud is a large step more basic. Its the difference of learning to speak japanese vs trying to learn japanese from encrypted messages.

Trolling aside, I would suggest you learn code by actually coding.

[provocating]

I am not normally one for meme's, but I will leave this here. Thanks.

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/842/755/493.jpg

[MarcusD]

I'm not having any problems creating the game I want using the tools and resources already available to me. But hey man, you're more than welcome to recreate the wheel.

Thats great but what I am getting at is a bunch of people want a reversion to classic EQ in order to create a clean slate to build on. But it has been evidenced by p99 that it isn't really possible in even 12,000 hours to achieve that clean slate original everquest. But we can achieve a very clean slate, the same slate eq used, by using dikumud.

[image]

I am not normally one for meme's, but I will leave this here. Thanks.

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/842/755/493.jpg


Lol and troll has made eqemu forums more lively than they have been for years. Scary. :D

[MarcusD]

I think a few eq nerds need to get out more. Troll is the only comeback you have.

[MarcusD]

So this is my plan (too much open source info? lol)

My plan is to keep playing eq till max level (currently at level 15 druid on my own server) because I never did complete it, and take notes and analyze everything and my experience. While doing this I will work on classicifying the database with adrian to learn about eq's database.

After that I am going to dikumud and playing/learning/deving that and learn about the source and how to use it. Once I feel confident I know how to administer dikumud (I may have to go back further and learn some C# to do that) I will come back to eq. When I am back I will play every class up to the 20's to get a feel for every class in EQ which I feel they did exceptionally well.

From there, well, I'll build something new.

[Cilraaz]

As others have said, if you want to do anything with the database or server code, you probably want to learn SQL and C++. Advancing your SQL/C++ knowledge via working on the emu is great, but learning the basics should be done separately.

[Shendare]

MarcusD, you seem to have misread a portion of that paragraph.

...the Diku gameplay provided inspiration for numerous MMORPGs, including EverQuest, World of Warcraft and Ultima Online.

EQ was "inspired" by the "gameplay" of Diku MUD. It says absolutely nothing about using any code from them. It was also inspired by WoTMUD, as well as D&D ( the world was developed in a D&D campaign [ http://eq2.zam.com/story.html?story=17392 ] ), fairy tales, film and television, etc.

My understanding, however, is that the EQ codebase was put together from scratch, and the craziness of the client file formats rather tends to agree with that. lol. They built an early graphics engine with DirectX, as was often done at the time before there were companies dedicated to making game engines for others to use.

I remember waaaay back reading something about the Unreal engine of the 90s being utilized in some way, but haven't found anything to corroborate that over the years. Maybe it was another 'inspiration' situation.

While I assume they've moved to relational databases since they talked about it years back, they tended to use a lot of text files on the server side, because it saves them from having to worry about binary file format changes and database schema changes.

But, yeah, no reference to DikuMUD code being used in EverQuest. Its gameplay, and MUD gameplay in general, was an inspiration for the birth of video game RPG gameplay across the board.

[MarcusD]

Interesting about unreal. I will keep that in mind. I don't buy the PR BS. Do you think if they dd use the unreal engine and dikumud code that they would tell anyone? lol that would destroy their entire company. I know how it works. Look at the history of linux and bsd and unix. That will tell you the truth of how things happen in the real world. They take unreal engine slap it on dikumud, jumble to code to hide their sources, then hire on people to make quests lol.

EverQuest controversy[edit]
There was a minor controversy in late 1999 and early 2000 regarding whether the commercial MMORPG EverQuest, developed by Verant Interactive, had derived its code from DikuMUD.[18] It began at the Re:Game gaming conference in 1999, where the Director of Product Development for EverQuest, Bernard Yee, allegedly stated that EverQuest was "based on Dikumud". He did not specify whether he meant the code itself was derived from DikuMUD, or if it just had a similar feeling. Some attendees had understood it to mean the former and reported to that effect on Usenet.[19] After the Diku group requested clarification, Verant issued a sworn statement on March 17, 2000 that EverQuest was not based on DikuMUD source code, and was built from the ground up.[20][21] In response, the DikuMUD team publicly stated that they find no reason whatsoever to believe any of the rumors that EverQuest was derived from DikuMUD code.[22]

[Shendare]

That... sounds again like a clear case of EQ being inspired by DikiMUD, and people misreading that 'based on' meant 'somehow got ahold of the source code'.

The 3D graphical nature of the game would likely have made a text MUD codebase transition even harder than building one from scratch, honestly. Height maps, 3D models, terrain, architecture, sound effects, animations for each and every race and gender, different textures for each one, item icons, item model graphics, water/fire animations, spell particle effects... None of those things would have come from a MUD.

[Cilraaz]

Unix and linux aren't at all equivalent to the source code of a game. 989 and its later spin-off Verant Interactive built the game from the ground up. In your own quote, the DikuMUD team even stated they didn't believe 989/VI stole their code.

[provocating]

Interesting about unreal. I will keep that in mind. I don't buy the PR BS. Do you think if they dd use the unreal engine and dikumud code that they would tell anyone? lol that would destroy their entire company. I know how it works. Look at the history of linux and bsd and unix. That will tell you the truth of how things happen in the real world. They take unreal engine slap it on dikumud, jumble to code to hide their sources, then hire on people to make quests lol.

If you would dig into the mechanics of Everquest and EqEmu you would understand your thinking is flawed. Dig in, get your feet wet before you jump to conclusions.

[MarcusD]

If you would dig into the mechanics of Everquest and EqEmu you would understand your thinking is flawed. Dig in, get your feet wet before you jump to conclusions.

Of course but I need to find the best direction before wasting thousands of hours and I feel very confident I have found that direction. I think what we all fell in love with wasn't eq, but rather dikumud. How about you read about diku's before jumping to conclusions yourself? http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/01/09/what-is-a-diku/

Everquest was created by players of DikuMUDs (specifically Forgotten Realms ones — Sojourn, Toril, Duris), and even had the same wording for many server-generated messages (“it begins to rain,” which was completely superfluous for a 3d game!). It played so similarly to its inspirations that some wondered if it actually was a DikuMUD, with graphics added on.

We fell in love with DQMud

[MarcusD]

Check this quote out from that articles comments:

Speaking of source code. The advice has been given in other threads to “download the source code if you want to understand it.” I did a while back (DIKU and a few others) and went through it, and found it very enlightening. It’s sort of astounding how simplistic it is.

I also created my own MUD server (CoffeeMud) on my dev box to mess around with it. Also very enlightening when it comes to understanding MUDs. I also found it a very useful tool for virtual world prototyping, because with a few sentences I could create a whole space, easily shuffle my virtual world around, add new paths (or remove them), add NPCs, interactive objects and so forth. No art required, and trivial to change a concept by just changing a text description.

[provocating]

I personally think Everquest today is running on foxpro with a standard foxpro backend. Probably still on a single core processor.

[provocating]

I mean when in a sworn statement that it is not based off the DikuMUD code you still think it is?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DikuMUD#EverQuest_controversy

EverQuest controversy

There was a minor controversy in late 1999 and early 2000 regarding whether the commercial MMORPG EverQuest, developed by Verant Interactive, had derived its code from DikuMUD.[18] It began at the Re:Game gaming conference in 1999, where the Director of Product Development for EverQuest, Bernard Yee, allegedly stated that EverQuest was "based on Dikumud". He did not specify whether he meant the code itself was derived from DikuMUD, or if it just had a similar feeling. Some attendees had understood it to mean the former and reported to that effect on Usenet.[19] After the Diku group requested clarification, Verant issued a sworn statement on March 17, 2000 that EverQuest was not based on DikuMUD source code, and was built from the ground up.[20][21] In response, the DikuMUD team publicly stated that they find no reason whatsoever to believe any of the rumors that EverQuest was derived from DikuMUD code.[22

[Caryatis]

This Marcus guy is going to get me banned again... so many posts, so little willpower to not shit them up!

[Tyen05]

So lets say EQ used dikumud's source code and then somehow through a gui onto it and blammo EQ was made.

They take unreal engine slap it on dikumud, jumble to code to hide their sources, then hire on people to make quests

lulzd hard.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=idea%20man

[Shendare]

I say we take a VW bus and throw some wings on it and -- BLAMMO! -- it's a space shuttle! Hehe.

[Uleat]

Hey! Some guy did that with an old impala and a JATO rocket :D


http://darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1995-04.html

[Tyen05]

@marcusD

http://psychcentral.com/quizzes/autism.htm

[Drajor]

This Marcus guy is going to get me banned again... so many posts, so little willpower to not shit them up!

Only hours ago in irc...
<Drajor_> We *NEED* to bring Caryatis back to sort this mess out, he is our only hope

WB /popcorn

[Secrets]

There's 0 references to DikuMUD in early binaries of EQ.

Verant/989 used Sony Computer Entertainment's Tegra3D library for rendering and the UI was done in WinAPI (directdraw).

[Shendare]

Ooh, googling for Tegra led to a nice blast from the past:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/games_everquest.html

[provocating]

This Marcus guy is going to get me banned again... so many posts, so little willpower to not shit them up!

Holy crap.

[MarcusD]

I did not inhale...

http://i62.tinypic.com/2ynl69u.jpg

And remember p99 didn't use everquest source code! They just built the code from scratch. Obviously.

[Kingly_Krab]

Join us, we need someone like you. Check our site out here: https://www.illuminatiofficial.org/

[MarcusD]

Why did DikuMud drop the charges when SOE made the sworn statement? How would you like to go up against Sony in court? A little volunteer nonprofit footing private investigation bills and litigation bills when sony could easily out lawyer you? There was no hope. They knew there was no way forward to pursue it. Even if they took leaked eq source code sony could just claim it wasn't the real source code.

A smart man once said: "The secret to creativity is learning how to hide your sources".

[provocating]

A smart man once said: "I see Jesus in my breakfast waffle".

/10 chars/

[N0ctrnl]

So what the hell is the point of all this anyway? If you wanna wrap an engine around DikuMUD, why not just do it? What difference does any of this make?

It seems like you really want to do this, but you have no skillset or knowledge where to even begin. So instead of learning any of that, you're going to come here and spend page after page trying to convince people of something that may or may not have happened 15+ years ago. But then what? You planning to actually help out or just sit back and talk about how much you know and what you're sure of?

It seems at least reasonably clear to me at this point that you're on your own. The sooner you realize that the better off you'll probably be.

[Shendare]

It can be quite self-entertaining to leap to the worst possible conclusions and suspect people's intentions, motivations, and ethics to be the worst they could be. It can also feel morally rewarding to root for the underdog against a big, mighty corporation. Go down the conspiracy consideration rabbit hole far enough and one might even feel like one has figured out a secret answer and solution that others simply haven't considered.

One would be wise to keep in mind, however, that it is all an exercise in the imagination. Very little, if any, is likely to be reflected in how situations actually played out. The reality of human experience very rarely organizes itself into good versus evil, and nobody has a working crystal ball to look back and see things play out first-hand.

Verant said EQ was inspired by DikuMUD and other MUDs and role-playing games. One guy said it was 'based on' DikuMUD. That choice of words inspired the imaginations of some to suspect that meant they somehow stole something from DikuMUD in order to accomplish their success.

Such has been deemed to be a faulty interpretation. The lead of the development team for EverQuest made a sworn statement that such was not true, as shown in the above linked image. DikuMUD acknowledged the statement and, one should pay special attention to this part, specifically stated that they do not believe EverQuest stole anything from or infringed on anything related to DikiMUD.


After two hectic days Verant and the DIKU group jointly resolved the DIKU MUD / EverQuest infringement rumors on March 17th, 2000 .

The DIKU group received a sworn statement from Verant, and the DIKU group thus no longer finds any reason what-so-ever to believe any of the rumors that EverQuest should be based on DIKU MUD.

The DIKU group is proud that "the DIKU feeling" has found its way into a game as enjoyable and award winning as EverQuest.

Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20030808180021/http://dikumud.com/everquest.aspx

They love EverQuest, and they're proud to have been an inspiration. These are friendly interactions of support for one another. All progress and invention is made based on improvements to that which came before. One common related phrase is that of "standing on the shoulders of giants" to reflect that better and better creations are only possible because we have the innovators of the past to support and guide us.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_on_the_shoulders_of_giants

[MarcusD]

If you want to know the point of all this read the topic. I am not rooting for an underdog I am showing people that DikuMUD is the part about everquest that we all fell in love with. DikuMUD is the spirit behind everquest. We can use dikumud and slap on a gui to make spiritual successors to everquest. It goes from a dead end nostalgia preserve to path forward to revolutionize the MMO industry. Unlike SONY we can use DikuMUD code legally to write our own MMO's, we just have to give them away for free. Gaining experience from that we could write our own MUD and base MMO's off of that and charge money for them.

Also Circlemud is a dikumud derivative that is probably the most viable with current OS' and programs but I am having trouble compiling it. it requires Microsoft visual c++ which I have in visual studio but not really sure how to make that work I ran it and got 1 successful build which when run is a blank project.

[provocating]

We can use dikumud

Who is this we? Do you have a mouse in your pocket when you are talking? There is no we. There is you.

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/63498614.jpg

[Kingly_Krab]

I usually don't get involved in stuff like this, by stuff I mean obvious flaming/trolling/bashing for the sole purpose of bringing down a project because of intense ass pain. But if you think you have even the slightest idea as to where to begin with your DickInMud source code, you can go ahead, you'll be a solo developer in an empty repository, you're not drawing any contributors here, you're leaving a bad taste in peoples' mouths, your reason unbeknownst to me, but that's beside the point. Don't expect to draw a crowd or a following when you base your whole idea around trying to trash the reputation of the biggest EverQuest emulator server there has ever been (Project 1999), and believe that no one will throw you some factual evidence of your obvious third-grade level intellect regarding dealing with your anger or whatever your feelings were when you made this post and your other post regarding Project 1999. Just do yourself a favor and stop, you're like 1,000 feet too deep already, don't dig any deeper.

[Kingly_Krab]

Feel free to contribute: https://github.com/KinglyKrab/DickInMud

[MarcusD]

I usually don't get involved in stuff like this, by stuff I mean obvious flaming/trolling/bashing for the sole purpose of bringing down a project because of intense ass pain. But if you think you have even the slightest idea as to where to begin with your DickInMud source code, you can go ahead, you'll be a solo developer in an empty repository, you're not drawing any contributors here, you're leaving a bad taste in peoples' mouths, your reason unbeknownst to me, but that's beside the point. Don't expect to draw a crowd or a following when you base your whole idea around trying to trash the reputation of the biggest EverQuest emulator server there has ever been (Project 1999), and believe that no one will throw you some factual evidence of your obvious third-grade level intellect regarding dealing with your anger or whatever your feelings were when you made this post and your other post regarding Project 1999. Just do yourself a favor and stop, you're like 1,000 feet too deep already, don't dig any deeper.

Lol I have no clue what you are talking about man. I am teaching people history and showing them a path forward for developing spiritual successors to everquest. I don't need or want any followers, everything I've done I have done on my own. I would love to know why EQEmu has let P99 walk all over them and trash their GPL license. Awaiting your factual evidence.

[Akkadius]

Lol I have no clue what you are talking about man. I am teaching people history and showing them a path forward for developing spiritual successors to everquest. I don't need or want any followers, everything I've done I have done on my own. I would love to know why EQEmu has let P99 walk all over them and trash their GPL license. Awaiting your factual evidence.

...............................................

[Kingly_Krab]

Lol I have no clue what you are talking about man. I am teaching people history and showing them a path forward for developing spiritual successors to everquest. I don't need or want any followers, everything I've done I have done on my own. I would love to know why EQEmu has let P99 walk all over them and trash their GPL license. Awaiting your factual evidence.
You probably should check your privilege, and what exactly have you done other than show your ignorance on a public forum with no hope of coming back?

[Shendare]

I believe a more precise phrasing would be 'imagining the most basic, big-picture steps required in a path forward'. Your current absence of programming and database skills limit your ability to develop such a path. Education and talent in 3D graphics, 2D UI development, prose fiction authorship... these things would also be helpful for such development. Telling people to break ties with others they have long worked and played with and simplifying a years-long development process into such phrases as 'taking the DikuMUD code and slapping a GUI on it' do not fit well with the intention of developing a successor to a multi-million dollar corporate product now in its nineteenth year of continual development.

[mgellan]

Personally I'd use LambdaMOO, object oriented y'know. I coded a shitload of stuff in MOO code on Dragonsfire MOO, including a Harper Songbook that emitted muzak and responded to RP queues in the crowd while emitting songs. Good times :)

Of course, that assumes your central hypothesis has some merit, which alas falls into the "I don't understand it so it must be easy" category.

Regards,
Mg

[MarcusD]

Personally I'd use LambdaMOO, object oriented y'know. I coded a shitload of stuff in MOO code on Dragonsfire MOO, including a Harper Songbook that emitted muzak and responded to RP queues in the crowd while emitting songs. Good times :)

Of course, that assumes your central hypothesis has some merit, which alas falls into the "I don't understand it so it must be easy" category.

Regards,
Mg

From what I've gathered MOO was the backbone of Ultima Online, the sims and other games like that. MUD was the backbone of EQ, then blizzard somehow ripped off EQ it seems like to make WoW. Even if EQ wrote a new diku like MUD from scratch it is plainly obvious that EQ is a MUD at its core without a doubt. So MUD seems to be that really challenging combat mechanic wheras MOO is more social games. I would be interested to find out how SimCity/rollercoaster tycoon/incredible machine type of game started out.

[Kingly_Krab]

From what I've gathered MOO was the backbone of Ultima Online, the sims and other games like that. MUD was the backbone of EQ, then blizzard somehow ripped off EQ it seems like to make WoW. Even if EQ wrote a new diku like MUD from scratch it is plainly obvious that EQ is a MUD at its core without a doubt. So MUD seems to be that really challenging combat mechanic wheras MOO is more social games. I would be interested to find out how SimCity/rollercoaster tycoon/incredible machine type of game started out.
From what you've gathered? Are the voices in your head giving you all of this information?

[Burningsoul]

Naw, his sources don't exist. None of us do either. We're all figments of imagination in this fucks' head he invented to keep himself company. We're foster's home for imaginary eqemus.

[Shendare]

eqemus.

https://i.imgur.com/Xhtqnpx.jpg

[Kingly_Krab]

I found MarcusD!!
http://www.hdforums.com/forum/attachments/the-general-b-s-forum/295270d1359308103-posers-coffee-house-all-bullshit-accepted-part-iv-wtf-star-trek-cosplay.jpg

[provocating]

This guy is crazier than a sprayed cockroach.

[ghanja]

From what I've gathered MOO was the backbone of Ultima Online, the sims and other games like that. MUD was the backbone of EQ, then blizzard somehow ripped off EQ it seems like to make WoW. Even if EQ wrote a new diku like MUD from scratch it is plainly obvious that EQ is a MUD at its core without a doubt. So MUD seems to be that really challenging combat mechanic wheras MOO is more social games. I would be interested to find out how SimCity/rollercoaster tycoon/incredible machine type of game started out.

Stop the presses. Someone let Don Daglow know that he was ripped off. DikuMUD was surely a copy of his Dungeon. But, maybe DikuMUD took some ideas from LOTRD, which in turn may have swiped ideas from my door game, seeing that I released mine 5 months before Seth released his. All this time I just shrugged it off and thought "a much nicer implementation" and even played it myself.

Maybe if I scrounge around I could find the old Pascal source to the door game and you could wrap a GUI around that?

The rage, delusions and such sure are entertaining though.

[Shendare]

D&D ripped off Lord of the Rings! Lord of the Rings ripped off Greek, Roman, and Celtic mythology! Take back all the money for the mystics!!! :P

[Tabasco]

I remember the whole dikumud controversy. The only real similarities were text descriptions during fighting. It would be more likely that Anarchy Online copied from a mud because they used TCP instead of UDP for things like movement updates in the beginning. (It failed miserably under load, rubber-banding, etc.)
In terms of technology, muds have nothing to offer a real-time game. In terms of content, claiming a genre is like trying to patent a fart.

Honestly, I don't have a dog in this fight and obvious troll is obvious, but Caryatis made a post and that makes this thread special.

[AdrianD]

Hey guys!

I have a question that many of you who responded/got trolled/whatever in this thread could probably answer on a different thread where my question resides.

Thanks for the replies.

EDIT: for anyone actually interested in assisting, here is the link to the thread, last post

http://www.eqemulator.org/forums/showthread.php?t=40039&page=5

[MarcusD]

Am I insane or does this look like the funnest thing to do on earth? I think C is my own personal heaven. I am going to be starting from scratch like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sfNHDtcOZk

[N0ctrnl]

Am I insane

That would certianly explain a lot.

[Maze_EQ]

MarcusD, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I've ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent post was there anything that could even be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this forum is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul!"

P.S

Fire is hot, die in one.

[provocating]

Am I insane or does this look like the funnest thing to do on earth? I think C is my own personal heaven. I am going to be starting from scratch like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sfNHDtcOZk

For entertainment I watched the video for around 30 seconds. When the guy could not remember what he called the variable for mana, well that just kind of killed it for me. If you are going to make a video for showing people C++, Jesus Christ at least do a dry run first.

[Kingly_Krab]

For entertainment I watched the video for around 30 seconds. When the guy could not remember what he called the variable for mana, well that just kind of killed it for me. If you are going to make a video for showing people C++, Jesus Christ at least do a dry run first.
Saw that, initialized as mana then set as mhp = rand()%50+60;

Edit: Continued watching and he said "and" and put ||, haha.

Edit 2: The blind teaching the blind in that video, to say the least.

[provocating]

Edit: Continued watching and he said "and" and put ||, haha.



I caught that too, I think it was right around the time he could not remember the variable name. I am not intentionally trying to be critical but if you are teaching, especially if you have a chance to perfect the video, get it right.

[Shendare]

Meh. He did it before he was ready, and appears to be something of a beginner himself. Fresh out of a college course, perhaps.

I gotta give someone props for the gumption to do it and put it online at all, without talking himself up or being super irritating.

Dry run would definitely have been helpful. Even coding up the whole thing beforehand, then starting again from scratch for the video with potential logical and structural pitfalls figured out beforehand and fresh in memory.

Better than nothing, though. That video was from 2013, too. Wonder if he's improved. Too lazy to check for other videos, though. lol

[sunbeam]

I remember that whole Dikumud thing from way back.

Here are some impressions I've gotten from reading about this over the years.

1) McQuaid played a Dikumud pretty heavily.

2) They spit this whole project out in a hurry. I mean it came out at rocket speed (whether anyone justifiably thinks it was a paid beta for the first six months or so), compared to anything they or anyone else did later.

Althought to counteract that I remember reading somewhere that Sony had been working on a MMORPG for a while before McQuaid (and Smedley?) came on board, and however Verant came to be.

3) As someone mentioned there was stuff from the Dikumud in question in the database. Only I had thought it went beyond things like descriptions, I thought it included phrases like "You've ruined your own lands, you'll not ruin mine!"

4) The class structure and I guess gameplay were derived from the Mud in question (as much as a reasonably 3d game can derive from a text mud).

This is something that interests me. At one time there were some EQ players who had played both. I thought that the names like "Shadowknight," and the distinction of having pets, along with necros being different from mages being different from enchanters and so forth came about.

I'd be pretty cheerful about being corrected, at this point who has any skin in that game?

But whether Verant copied code (and it is hard to see how that is possible given the difference between a text and graphics game like this), my take is there is a lot more derivation than what anyone would gather from reading this thread.

And just to cut and paste from wikipedia (though I know that proves nothing):

"EverQuest began as a concept by John Smedley in 1996. The original design is credited to Brad McQuaid, Steve Clover, and Bill Trost. It was developed by Sony's 989 Studios and its early-1999 spin-off Verant Interactive, and published by Sony Online Entertainment (SOE).[3]

Since its acquisition of Verant in late 1999, EverQuest was developed by Sony Online Entertainment.[4]

The design and concept of EverQuest is heavily indebted to text-based MUDs, in particular DikuMUD, and as such EverQuest is considered a 3D evolution of the text MUD genre like some of the MMOs that preceded it, such as Meridian 59 and The Realm Online. John Smedley, Brad McQuaid, Steve Clover and Bill Trost, who jointly are credited with creating the world of EverQuest, have repeatedly pointed to their shared experiences playing MUDs such as Sojourn and TorilMUD as the inspiration for the game.[5] Famed book cover illustrator Keith Parkinson created the box covers for earlier installments of EverQuest.[6]

Development of EverQuest began in 1996 when Sony Interactive Studios America (SISA) executive John Smedley secured funding for a 3D game like text-based MUDs following the successful launch of Meridian 59 the previous year.[citation needed] To implement the design, Smedley hired programmers Brad McQuaid and Steve Clover, who had come to Smedley's attention through their work on the single player RPG Warwizard. McQuaid soon rose through the ranks to become executive producer for the EverQuest franchise and emerged during development of EverQuest as a popular figure among the fan community through his in-game avatar, Aradune.[citation needed] Other key members of the development team included Bill Trost, who created the history, lore and major characters of Norrath (including EverQuest protagonist Firiona Vie), Geoffrey "GZ" Zatkin, who implemented the spell system, and artist Milo D. Cooper, who did the original character modeling in the game."

Now for some reason, I remember reading the original game was done in 18 months. That doesn't jibe with those dates I'll assume to be true, the ball was started by Smedley in 96, and he hired McQuaid that year.

Still these guys got a whole heck of a lot done in a short time, as opposed to Everquest 2, WoW, or any of the others.

I wouldn't be surprised if the first year 96 were more planning and setting up milestones than anything else, with serious work, including art, not starting till 97; maybe even halfway through 97 to go with 18 month thing I think I remember from somewhere.

Just saying I'm not so sure Everquest isn't more derivative of "Torilmud" (after seeing the name I remembered that was the one McQuaid played heavily), particularly given the short dev cycle of this thing (or maybe the more advanced graphics on the later games slowed them down in comparison?).

If anyone ever played that mud, can they comment on any similarities? These things change and evolve all the time, so I guess it would have to be a late 90's player to really be accurate, and Torilmud to boot.

Otherwise I have no idea who Marcus is or what is up with this thread.

But these have always been my thoughts on the whole thing, whether accurate or not, and more to the point important at all.

[provocating]

My quest is to reverse engineer everquest and the deeper back you go the easier it is to learn. Do you suggest I learn coding by looking at eq code or dikumud code? Dikumud is a large step more basic. Its the difference of learning to speak japanese vs trying to learn japanese from encrypted messages.

So what kind of progress have you made MarcusD?