Nothing is immortal in life Bbum, my best moments in life was my first times, first time i kissed a girl, first time i had sex with a girl, first time i seen a gnome in full bronze while playing EQBeta, First time i have see my babies in maternity, even with the best effort, you will never be able to resurrect those first time moments, there are things that belong to past, "EQClassic" is one of them.
All things evolve in life, MMORPG evolved since EQBeta, maybe not on the right side, i can admit it, but they evolved, and you cant refuse this evolution by being struck in your mentality, i think its the point of Wiz. An example would be Black and White TV, my grand'ma watched it, it was the first TV, only one channel, she loved it, but now, she is watcher 16/9 color TV with Pro Logic and 350+ channels, evolution ... darwin law ...

just becuase its a female doesn't make it a girl.

Why yes that would be your opinion, no need to guess. And once again no you can't make the game better by changing the original eq, becuase that would infact be a new eq, not the original. Like i said earlier i still have a longing for the newbie days when you actually had to sit your ass and med for 10 mins waiting for 20m becuase your regen was so low, you actually had some challange to stay alive, now, hell there isn't a thing in the game that can't be beat, aside from maybe the jester in PoM, has anyone killed him?... well most have long since given up becuase SpyEQ reveals he has no loot tables anyway... and i don't think he has any story like the sleeper did..... hmm off topic again, but really its just the fact that after someone has seen that at level 10 it is infact possible to make a 50 point hit with the right gear, who wants to have to sit and wait and watch those 2 and 3 point hits going by whent they know they probably won't see alot of the high end zones (PoH and PoSky and such in original eq... i think. *i was post kunark*) without the aid of the server op. or a GM.

So to solve this people don't create the old eq, they instead mold their own stories, ideas and quests around the old stuff, as well as adding lots of new stuff, so instead of waiting all that time to get up to lvl 50 and all of a sudden not be able to go anywhere high end without a raid, you can instead take the alternate route that the server ops have made for you and you can have tons of fun soloing or just going with 2-3 people. <shrug>

If you didn't understand what i was getting at, lets just put it like this. "No matter how hard you try, it won't work, its not worth it, old stuff has long since turned old, its the new and improved storys, quests that are in demand, thats why SoE releases expansions, although they all suck now, but still its to keep the place alive."

Just read this post....
 

I just read this post for the first time, had never even noticed it before, but man, did you have to drop reality on me like that? Lol, I couldn't even finish reading the whole thread....I started tearing up as my dreams of reliving EQClassic were ripped from the nether regions of my brain...ouch....

Anyways, I thought I'd share my opinion of EQLive...it was okay, even the lore remained half intact as it spread from EQClassic to up to the Velious expansion, after that, with the addition of Luclin, druids and wizards became unimportant, boat use was minimal, and eventually died out... The ability to travel between continents and explore the moon via spires nearly ruined the EQ experience for me, I was about ready to quit. I managed to stick with it, and then PoP came out, GAH, the ability to travel to SO MANY CITIES BY CLICKING A F*CKING STONE seriously ruined EQ for me.... I nearly quit leveling and merely played the game to sit in PoK and talk to friends I had made. It was sad....

The point of this is, I believe an EQClassic server, while not as fun as I had originally hoped, nor as popular as many of the current servers, could be somewhat enjoyable.

Now...does anyone have an amnesia ray I can borrow...I wanna go back to the beginning, when I was a newb, and I WAS excited about any item I got....GOD I LOVED MY FIRST WURMY!!!!

I still dont see the point wiz. Make it alittle more clear for me.

Is the point: A pre-kunark server wouldnt have enough content? cause thats mostly what im seeing

well i just dont know about that =/ im expecting the level to 50 to feel like a grind all over again, and i mean a hardcore grind where you prove your worhty of the next lvl not the brainless grind to 50 today. im expecting it to be like old days where half the days your group ends the day with negative expierence.

and i dont know about your expierence, but to me going in plane of hate was barly worth it we got pwned so hard. Even later PoFear i got owned with a full group of lvl 50's, to me theres tons of content out there to keep us busy, we probly wouldnt see planar armor on the server for a good few months. the content lasted me back then and i didnt even see it all.

i think if anything it would be to hardcore for all the newbs used to leveling now, especially if hell lvls, lvl 1 corpse runs, no soul binder npcs, no maps no find no teleports no newbie quest gear came back

why do you say that? you think they would rather have derv rings be obsolete? why do you call it a novelty?? would you rather have what the eqlive team has created??

Your the one trying to rip off eq. Were trying to recreate the eq we havent played in 4 years, and we kno it. You cant take eq, and make a better game than eq thats not even on norrath, we know were stil playing eq, its just not fun IMO. but we can upgrade norrath, make whats already there better. seems alot more realistic than making a new game to me, because in the end its really just another eq server but whacked out, and not the quality of everquest

not everyone has explored every inch of norrath, and no ones forcing you to look at allakazam, so speak for yourself.

No. They dont have shitty stats. They are ubar, and an accomplishment to aquire. Unlike in eqlive. That is the point.

What is it you want me to explain? why eqclassic is better than eqlive? why its more worth while to create a pre-kunark remake than trying to create a new game? why eq classic had better gameplay than any other mmorpg since? i dont think i need to

well since that is untrue, i will now post every bit of logic i tried to communicate to you in my last post.

khan- ok, stop there, EQ WAS NOT GOOD BECAUSE YOU THINK I WAS SOME MMOG VIRGIN. eq was better than eqlive and other modern mmorpgs because it of gameplay mechanics, deep lore and its hardcore challenge.

that is a one bad example. New tvs pwn ur grandma's tvs. but eqlive doesnt pwn shit, it evolved into crap.

thats what i think to, but just because they have to add more content does not mean they have to trivialize old content, noob the game up by killing gameplay mechanics and kill the old zones lets face it, the eqlive team didnt know what they were doing.

i quit leveling and sat at newbie left in kelethin and buffed peopel and just talked to people, pvp'd, and buffed newbs .

the only way to have fun in live is to do random quests you can find around your city, even though the reward is not worthwhile, not do newbie gear quests, only use what yu loot, and not twink yourself.

btw, gettnig your wurmy can be just as much an acomplishment as before. it was the game mechanics that made orignal eq what it was, not being a noob.

That's very cool. Unfortunately, as I explained, it's not going to be the same getting pwned in PoHate. If you put exp rates at the same as original live, you're never going to have enough 50's to tackle Hate.

Not to mention strats are available on every mob there. How are you going to do no maps? They are an integrated part of the client,c an't be changed.

And the hardcore grind is going to lose you a lot of players. Less people want to spend forever leveling than you think on a server that has about 50 other people to interact with. Trust my experience on this. I have dealt with thousands of players and their complaints and wishes over the last two years. I'm not just speaking out of my ass here. If you don't believe me, I can dig up some quotes from players on matters such as experience gain, content progression, downtime and transporatation. Are you going to forbid dual clienting? Because otherwise that will rather trivialize this hardcore grind you're aiming for.

You wouldn't see armor for months? Awesome. Players will drop off like flies from lack of progression. No, the content didn't "last", in fact most high end players (myself included) were bored to tears around when Kunark came out. There was nothing to do. I saw a necromancer spend about 50 hours raising Rivervale faction, because he had nothing else to do. This might make you blissful with nostalgia, but not me.

Because it's totally irrelevant. People have done it before, and it's hard to get excited over +2 DEX rings. Let me explain something to you. There are two kinds of values. Objective and subjective. Objective values are things like food. You must have food. Subjective values are things like money, a John Travolta movie or an item in EQ. Everyone knows, nowadays, that 2 DEX does exactly jack and shit. It's totally irrelevant if there's nothing better out there. +0.1% proc rate isn't going to cause anyone to cream their pants. Their subjective value will be quite low.

It's called modify. Look it up on dictionary.com. I'm not trying to rip off EQ anymore than Counterstrike tried to rip off Half-Life. I am changing a game that I love into my own ideal image of it. You are copying and pasting the past into the present, in utter ignorance of the fact that things change. Again, you make these utterly and totally unfounded claims of superiority, backed by nothing except empty jargon. Here's how you make a point:

A) Pete is much better at soccer than Bob
B) Why?
A) Because Pete scored 10 goals last season, and Bob scored none.

-NOT-

A) Pete is much better at soccer than Bob.
B) Why?
A) Because Pete is much better at soccer than Bob.

Now wasn't that informative? You'll need to explain WHY EQclassic was such amazing quality, besides what I already stated, the point of the vision and the fact that it was first and undespoiled. Why are blackburrow gnolls so infinitely superior to Velious gnolls or WR gnolls? I love oldworld, but it's not the end-all gaming experience.

This shows that you have no practical understanding of how players work. People WILL look at allakhazam if they can. That's just how they work, shown to unprecedented amounts by the very EQlive you yearn for.

Actually, they do. Getting a giant snake fang is not an accomplishment. Nor a mino axe. It takes nothing but a level 20 character for either. How is that an accomplishment compared to say, Uqua gear in EQlive, which takes months and extreme dedication to get? :?: Or even or Cmal3 gear on WR, which takes a well-balanced, skillful group with good gear to acquire? You seem to be rather blinded by your own prejudice here.

Actually, you do. Because you believe in EQclassic the almighty doesn't mean everyone else do. You're projecting all over the place. Or alternatively, you just can't argue your point logically, so you spit out more emotional garbage.

Hoo boy. Here we go.

Personal bias. I don't enjoy the PoK books, but many people do. You're projecting.

This wasn't logical at all. First of all, you have no rights to make claims as to what the REAL everquest is. The REAL everquest is the game that the current owners of the everquest brand distribute. Secondly, things have changed in those four years that make it impossible to go back completely, as I explained, thirdly, the last part of this sentence is exceptionally stupid projection where you try to assert that I share your views, despite all what I posted why this server simply wouldn't be very fun. Or, essentially:

A) I hate broccoli.
B) Oh come on, if I gave you broccoli you know you would eat it.
A) ???

How is that in any shape or form logical? Man, you really need to learn how to argue.

Right, let's split this up.

Ad hominem. Double ad hominem, even. To display what an ad hominem is, we'll bring out our educational friends A and B again.

A) Tolkien was the father of fantasy, he essentially created the genre.
B) You're wrong because you're stupid.
A) What does that have to do with my point? Argue my point!
B) I won't because you smell.

Here's a quiz for you. Which person here used an ad hominem, dismissal of a point on the weak grounds of a personal insult? I'll give you a hint. It wasn't A.

Oh for fucks sakes, MORE unbased promotion? I believe we already covered this in the argumentative school.

I'm going to repeat argumentative school again, just for your benefit, so maybe you can construct something that makes sense next time:

Making a point and backing it up.

A) Pete is much better at soccer than Bob
B) Why?
A) Because Pete scored 10 goals last season, and Bob scored none.

-NOT-

A) Pete is much better at soccer than Bob.
B) Why?
A) Because Pete is much better at soccer than Bob.

How to avoid Projecting

A) I hate broccoli.
B) Oh come on, if I gave you broccoli you know you would eat it.
A) ???

The simple key to avoiding projecting is to stop assuming everyone else has the same mindset at you. Also known as: Not being an ant.

How to avoid Ad Hominems

A) Tolkien was the father of fantasy, he essentially created the genre.
B) You're wrong because you're stupid.
A) What does that have to do with my point? Argue my point!
B) I won't because you smell.

Avoiding Ad Hominems is even easier! To avoid an Ad Hom, all you have to do is argue the points, not the person. I know, I know, it'd require you to actually say something coherent, but see the first part of argumentative school,
Making a point and backing it up. for this.

So, kids, did everyone learn something today?

Re: Just read this post....
 

I think an EQclassic server could be enjoyable, at least for some time, before boredom from lack of progression sets in, or people tire of being on a server with 20 people split over 12 cities. No doubt. Probably even a good amount of enjoyable if it somehow managed to concentrate the playerbase to a small area and get it to grow considerably. But it won't be EQclassic.

Wiz.... ^.^ *rubs his head* Could you say all that again.... only so that a 20 year old numb nut can understand? Ha ha.. I got lost haflway in the post with all the qoutes... well either that or i read so much that my mind was going Link dead lol.... ..ill just reread it in a little bit I guess...

EQ clasic with 20 heck even 100 people playing on the server would suck bad. LFG for fours and hours, not able to solo or do anything by yourself due to the legit rules and crappy ( compared to todays twink stuff ) gear.

If you could start a clasic server and have thousands play on it it would work and work well, with less then 100 playing it would die in no time. There may be a little crew of 5-6 people who play together but how much fun is a server with few people?

Jesus H. Christ. That was very well writen. I've had the insatuable urge for classic, the peril, the lostness, all of that jazz. You made me see the clear! I may quit EQ now for good. You've liberated my mind.

Thank you.

My opinion
 

I saw a flash movie somewhere a while ago that showcased pictures and music from classic EQ, and it brought tears to my eyes ..silly as that may seem, but EQ was so magical when I first started playing it. Everyone was using classic character models, someone with an epic was Godly, etc. Luclin hadn't been envisioned yet. Now adays, EQ is a lot different and as the point was made earlier (Wiz I think), nobody wants to wear a +2 DEX ring when they can easily get a +10 DEX ring. Hell even newbie armor is better than what we started with back in pre-kunark days. Cloth, leather, and if you were substantially rich, chain of some sort. More on this below.


In EQemu I would enjoy a classic server for about 20 minutes, tops. You see, in EQlive I HAVE to level up. There are no commands, and if I choose to play EQlive, I have no choice but to work for what I want. So if I want to level up and work for gear, I play EQlive. But in EQemu, on many servers, I type #level and #si and #scribespells. So why would I dabble around playing on a server where I would have to level up, and have to work for those +2 DEX rings, when I could easily switch to another and have time gear within minutes? Because that's not the way I like to play EQemu. The reason a classic EQ server wouldn't work in EQemu is -For many people including myself, EQemu is a way to see what high-end EQ is like (for the most part). It's an escape from EQlive, an escape from mad hours spent on my ass hitting the Q key and drinking soda. As I have seen first hand from running my own EQemu server, people want Time and GoD gear. People complain about things such as, my ring of prismatic visions disappeared when I zoned, omg!!!11!1 and, Are there any custom items on the server and OMG you NERFED 11000??????!??!11?!?!11 ..not ONE person complained about plague rat tail drops on large rats in qeynos2. I had to increase the exp multiplier on my server to keep people happy, because they wanted to level up quickly. I added an NPC that gave players level 20 right away. Guess what happened? The player base skyrocketed from the average 2 people a day to 15-20 people a day and more. This happened because most people don't WANT to dabble around for hours. They want what they want, and they want it NOW, not next week. I left that oppurtunity open for my players, and they grabbed ahold of it and began to dance with it. Not one player on my server chose to ignore the Headmaster and level, not one. Now, I'm not saying that there aren't people who enjoy spending endless hours earning that 12AC breastplate and leveling up, there are, and sometimes I do myself. But not in EQemu, not when the oppurtunity for better is always there, ready to take in an instant. When people know there is better out there, and know it is easy to get, they're going to go for the better. That's human nature - If you were offered a Pinto or a Ferrari, which would you choose?

To sum it all up, EQ classic is gone, and not to return. You can create all the max level cap 50, time gearless servers you want, butIf someone wishes to have a classic EQ, they will need to create an entirely new game, with new surprises and new gear. That feeling of magic, myth and mystery that we all felt will only surface if we log in to the server and have no idea what to expect. We all know in our hearts that EQ classic is gone, some of us just need to be opened up in different ways before we finally accept it. And when we do finally accept it, perhaps the reality of things will fall into place better.

Sir Kane the Destroyer
ServerOP, Claws of Veeshan

you are wrong. if eq classic came back, it would be the same eq classic we knew before. and i dont know about you, but i havent played it in 4 years and would happily play again

you dont think players want a hardcore server? they dont want to be newbs? they dont want to work for content that is worthless on eqlive? well then they dont have to fucking play but theres some people out there who want a challenge

your right about one thing.. if you know every single inch of eq leveled every race / class combo to 50 and done every quest in every city i guess ya, your only chance is a new game. You know what the problem is tho? new games are newb'd down, useally dont have good lore, no class inter-dependancy and leveling is not an acomplishment.

i dont kno about u guys but being a virgin to norrath wasnt what made original eq good, it was its game mechanics. there was nothing special about it, ever. it was just another game my action quake 2 clan played. i never went around and talked to npcs for no reason, and never really explored, there was no mystry to me. thats not why eq was good.

im gonna write my response to wiz's huge post now =(

let me rephraise a few things wiz, since english isnt your first language you probly translate alot of the text wrong ( ive seen people like you on the net, they know engllish perfectly by the dictionary and kno every word in the universe and talk like a professer, but cant understand a damn sentence.)

what i said was no planar armor for a few months lol, anyway, i didnt even get 50 till kunark came out, i never had the pleasure of reaching 50 and waiiting around for kunark. perhaps thats why i would like to play old world again, and you would not, because i didnt fully expierence it eheh.

its not hard when there ubar. any kind of stat gear should be considered leet. thats the point of the servr, if you like how eq is now where you dont even check if items are magic anymore than have fun.

wr is your ideal image of eq? lol thats lame man, lame.

i dont yearn for EQlive. EQlive is the pos made by the EQlive team after mcquaid went to sigil and trost/ smedley and the rest went to wrok on eq2

and i go on live all the time and do quests without allakazam, its fun, if people want to ruin there fun they can.

the point is, obtaining those items on an original server would be an acomplishment, its ubah, while on a live server would be something you sell to a merchant as junk. not to mention lvl 20 on a live server is nothin but a day at paludal, and for the first 10 lvls you dont have to worry about any risk or challenge at all.

you know the answer to all 3. i wont waste my time.

ah god damn stfu u kno exactly what i mean lol

thats not the whole quote and is taken out of contex.. you were saying eq original would not be as fun if we played now. now read my quote

get it now? i wasnt saying eqclassic is the best it can get, as in best game in the world.. geez...

btw, this is what REALLY went down :lol:

A) i luv brocolli, but ive already eatin it and allakazam.com had discovered every inch of it, so i dont want to eat it again
B) Oh come on, if I gave you broccoli you know you would eat it. its still the same broccoli u had before, and not everyone had eatin it all.
A) rahhhhr projecting kids ad hominem argue points not person make a point an back it up pete owns bob at soccro teh ubar rowr

p.s. im not trying to sound intelegent, or trying to be a leet forum dude, or get respect, or penis envy, or like a master argueer, or like i know what im talking about, im just trying to tell people why an eq classic server is still worthwhile. This would go alot smoother on irc i think =)

The main point Wiz stated you missed i guess, YOU may want that back, 4-5 others may realy want it back, BUT most of the people who claim they want it back will get bored within a week and drop the server for a semi-legit or a legit where its easier to LV.


There is NO player base for the old content, kind of hard to do plain raids when there is only 10 people who play on the server.

I think we all finally agree on something.

Wiz said it perfectly, most people have stated they agree with wiz. If there is such a need or want for a classic server, where are your fanbois rallying to your side?

I believe his intention was to save people a lot of time and energy building something that is doomed to fail. If you feel so strongly in disagreement, spend that energy building this classic server and tell everyone to fuck off. Do it for you, not for us.

lol we are building a classic server :) its called Circle of Elements.
wether it suceeds or not it has still been fun making it.