How were faction value ranges determined?
 

I've recently been playing on the P99 server, and I came across some issues with the faction value ranges. I decided to look into it more and thought I'd look at the actual EQEmu source code to see what was going on.

It appears that neither EQEmu, nor P99, use the actual faction ranges that I have always associated with EQ.

I'd like to refer you to some links on the P99 wiki.

http://wiki.project1999.com/Faction
http://wiki.project1999.com/Talk:Faction

As you can see, faction was originally handled directly in the EQ client. The ranges were clear.

Did they yank the faction handling code from the client at some point, and start passing down a packet that told you how you con'd to a mob?

Is this why EQEmu's ranges differ so much, were the devs just guessing at what the real ranges were?

I'd like to understand better how the current EQEmu faction ranges were determined.

They are displayed in numerical values on EQLive now.

That's the data EQEmu (currently) uses.

The values in the Emu source do seem to be a bit weird.

https://github.com/EQEmu/Server/blob...on/faction.cpp

The Velious numbers in the included Faction wiki link from P99 are the ones I remember from trying to max my Ranger's faction years back, though it looks like I may have been off by 50 for Warmly/Scowling.

http://jondjackson.com/eq/Toromin/ToroFaction.asp

I managed to find an old copy of EQEmu 0.3.13 that I had lying around from 2002. I looked at that faction code and it also has the same values as in the current faction.cpp. So, it looks like EQEmu has always used these odd numbers.

I guess my question is, do the current devs understand that there is this major conflict or do they already know about the issue and just live with it because of the amount of work that it would take to make the faction_list table correct?

Or, was there actual testing done to make sure that the faction ranges that EQEmu is using are correct?

If testing was done, how was the issue resolved that the executable clearly lists different values than what the testing turned up?

Would it be any help to have the assembly from the executable posted?

Yes, faction from an executable that had it saved clientsided would help. I'd be interested in seeing that.

P99 and Live-like faction values are different, though. Keep in mind there was no ally until Velious, so anything prior to 2001 would be incorrect for modern day EQ.

Changing these numbers will result in huge headaches :P

Well, unless you're clearing your server's NPC and faction tables and starting from scratch. Then it won't cause much more of a headache than you're already taking on! :D

Here is the assembly form the original release CD executable:


Here is the assembly from a Velious era (June 2001) executable:

Note: The Velious code also has a special section just after this, but before mob strength is determined, that does some special checking of the God values and forces your con to either apprehensive or threatening. I haven't spent any time trying to fiure out under what conditions these forced con's are applied though.

Does this imply that you guys have known about this for some time, and just didn't want to put all the server operators through the trouble of breaking their faction systems?

It seems such a shame that so many servers out there attempt to replicate the original game, but are so off in this one department. The emulator (in its current state) makes the game much more grindy than it was in original.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but EQEmu doesn't actually ship with any base faction_list table, does it?

I understand that most people might be using PEQ as the base for their servers and that the faction_list table in PEQ was probably created around the wrong numbers, but couldn't the base EQEmu be made correct by moving the faction range values into a config file (or somewhere else in the database).

This way, the emulator could ship with the correct faction range values, but still allow all of the server operators to change the faction ranges without having to recompile the code. This would allow all the old server operators to run with their incorrect faction range values.

Tres awesome!

My summary of the assembly code:

Original Release eqgame.exe, checking each successive one if it doesn't match:

>= 750 - "looks upon you warmly"
>= 500 - "kindly considers you"
>= 100 - "judges you amiably"
>= 0 "regards you indifferently"
<-750 - "scowls at you, ready to attack"
<-500 - "glares at you threateningly"
<-100 - "glowers at you dubiously"
Otherwise (between -1 and -100) - "looks your way apprehensively"

Velious (June 2001) eqgame.exe:

>=1100 - "regards you as an ally"
>=750 - "looks upon you warmly"
>=500 - "kindly considers you"
>=100 - "judges you amiably"
>=0 - "regards you indifferently"
<-750 - "scowls at you, ready to attack"
<-500 - "glares at you threateningly"
<-100 - "glowers at you dubiously"
Otherwise (between -1 and -100) - "looks your way apprehensively"

Good call, EQEmuUser!

I am curious, how did you guys get assembly code from the client in the first place?

It would have been from the eqgame.exe on the original CD-ROMs. Disassembly of the machine code in an uncompressed/unencrypted executable is simple.

Hehehehehe.

This has been brought up a few times on my server. From reading p1999 uses the exact same faction system as us correct? So on things like CoV faction you cannot reach Ally from what I gather? I seem to remember people on my server players saying you can get to CoV ally and when you log you lose it.

I am a hitching a ride on the thread anyway.