Everything aggro's

[SpectreXtreme]

Hi I'm not sure if this is a bug or they way the server was made but when I play, if I attack a critter like a rat or a bat or snake, then all the other critters aggro me, now I know this dosn't happen in EQLive so was just wondering if this is supposed to happen?????????

[cavedude]

The reason this happens is because all the noob mobs are on the same faction so that guards work properly. The problem with this is all NPCs on the same faction will automatically assist and there is no way to override that in the db. I asked to get this functionality put in the code a few times but nothing ever came of it.

[John Adams]

I thought there was a switch on individual NPCs to toggle off Assist? Field "social" or something. If that is set to 0, I thought rat boy wouldn't assist his brother in need? Maybe not.

[KLS]

From what CD has told me it doesn't work right. I need to get around to checking it but I don't really have any experience in the aggro code so it's taken lower priority from me.

[Angelox]

Originally they all assisted, so you had to be careful - if you took on a wasp in Gfay, other wasps nearby would help. So you had to learn techniques in pulling, etc. from the start.
This was during the era when people spent a lot of time and played in newbee areas, when a typical night in places like Gfay would have hundreds of players.

[Breea]

Change the "Social" field value to "0" in the npc_types table. This will make them non-aggro. A value of "1" makes them socially aggro.

This has to be done per mob. So, for every mob that you do not want to aggro you have to change the npc_types entry for it.

[cavedude]

There shouldn't be a social field in npc_types anymore because it is no longer used. Even if you had the column in the db, it wouldn't work anyway because the code isn't functional.

I wasn't pointing the finger, KLS I asked a few devels and I agree it is a low priority bug anyway. As Angelox said, it will cause noobs to be better pullers Though it is bugged. Most noob mobs shouldn't assist each other, and currently they all assist each other, whether they are the same race or not.

[cavedude]

I should add, the reason the social column isn't used because with our faction system it shouldn't be needed. The issue is all mobs on the same faction will assist no matter what. So if Bat A and Rat B are on the same noob faction (which they are in PEQ to allow guards to work) then they will assist each other. Obviously, this is not live like and was never live like. Wasps and beetles are two forms of mobs that should assist, but they should only assist themselves, and no outside races. So, you'll see a "beetle" faction and a "wasp" faction on PEQ which does just that.

The best way to correct this system I feel is to allow faction hits to override assisting. If you place bats and rats on "noob monster" faction and don't want them to assist each other, then you'd create a faction hit of 0 against "noob monsters" whenever they are killed and have it passive (as apposed to hostile or assist) At present time, same faction mobs will assist even if the hit to the faction they are on is set to passive or hostile. Factions can be confusing in the db, so I'd hate to see what they are like in the code. That's why I am in no rush to see this fixed.

[Angelox]

I've actually went through a lot of the newbee zones and done just that , bats assist bats, wolves assist wolves, etc. Also the guards are properly associated with these newbee mob factions. So my newbee zones work fine - but honestly, this is wasted time: most of the work done in these zones will never be seen or used by anyone for a few reasons other than faction. One reason is, the rate at which experience is dealt out. Nobody wants to level slow in these areas. Even on the most strict of servers, I could probaly get ten levels in a few hours, level 60+ in a day or two.
I've given all this a lot of thought (all I can do at work), fast-leveling like this affects many things. For example, loots: I used to harp on how loots were too many and too easy. But, if you think about it, on a 1x - 8x exp server, then loots have to come faster accordingly, else the player never sees the loots and reaches 65 first (an 8x server probably should have extremly common loots, or even #summon command available). Same goes for faction; unless you plan to play in *just* these classic zones at a slow experience rate, then this will not be of any use to any players. Now, I'm not against fast-leveling simply because I have no right to be. But even the default rate that comes with the source is already faster than normal, so everything else should probably be adjusted too.

[cavedude]

Yes, you could put all the creatures on their own faction so that they would just assist each other. But the problem with that is two-fold. One, that's a lot of factions, and there is no need for them if the system works. That's purely from an optimization standpoint. And two, it isn't live like. I know in Misty as an example the only creatures that were ever social (excluding KOS, gobbys, orcs, bixies) were those damn beetles. The bats, rats, snakes, and spiders would never assist each other. Though in gfay you are right on, there were a lot more npcs that would assist. It's also a much larger zone with a lot more room to breathe.

But this problem isn't just limited to noob mobs, that is just the best example. Smaller dungeons are another good example. If aggro range and assist range are the same, then it's silly to have same faction NPC's assist assuming they already are KOS. Assisting uses a bit more CPU power than straight out aggro and on larger servers reducing it in favor of regular old aggro could make as big an impact as your non-pet spell tables did which I am still thankful for.

[John Adams]

I'm glad we're discussing this. I created a few new NPCs in a dungeon the other day, 2 side by side (defending a doorway for instance). I set their aggro radius up, dropped my GM and attacked one. The other stood there like a statue. I even ran up under his dress, dragging his buddy who I was killing with me. No aggro.

So I went to check the database entries for those two. Noticed I forgot to make a Faction. So using PEQEditor, I setup a single faction, assigned it to both NPCs, having them Assist. Repopped, then attacked one of them again. Still, the other would not aggro.

Is that not how this system works?

[cavedude]

Faction is in shared mem so you need a reboot to take effect.

[John Adams]

Ahh, ok that makes sense. I didn't think of that. :(

[cavedude]

Sorry to bump, but after talking with FNW and KLS last night about this, the newest build has a solution:

KLS: Added a field that allows you to override a factions innate desire to assist their own faction in battle to the npc_faction table

Required SQL:
alter table npc_faction add column ignore_primary_assist tinyint(3) not null default 0;

Setting ignore_primary_assist to 1 will prevent NPCs from assisting their own on that faction, leaving at the default 0 will leave things as is

[ChaosSlayer]

I am realy glad to see this was finaly addressed while I was away from EMU

I don't mean to be a dick.. but wasn't it more logical to code in "-1" value in npc_value colum to force a faction NOT to assist each other? =)