someone fucked up the wiki...

[gottasummer]

Yes, when the project was older, when there were a ton of devs, I wanted to leave and make my own project based off of EQEmu, but the problem is with the loginserver, not knowing how to make it :X

I now realize that things like this are not things that just one person can do, they are things that everybody has to do together, which is something that I often get frustrated about when someone says they will leave a project and go start a new one.


I will go read the wiki and try to fix a bug, one thing that I think would be a good improvement would be a "community-board" like thing, but I doubt EQ can do that, I have yet to see things like a dialog box and things, but maybe we could have a NPC chat dialog type thing, and then have it parse somtehing like a HTML file or somtehing... but anyway, I think I will look on the bugs page before taking up something new.

[wraithlord98]

I spent over 16 hours looking through the wiki (what a piece of work that is let me tell you).. I lost count how many hours I spent rummaging through the forums.. I understand the devs are busy doing other stuff and I don't expect them to simply cough anything answers or to drop everything to answer a question they consider mundane; petty; and beneath them. But that gives them NO right to simply shit on someone else with an unbelievable attitude like they are the prima donna of coding.

I came here with the intentions to learn and to try and support the community and hopefully contribute something back in an effort to move this project forward. Instead - I'm met with criticism - skepticism - and what's worse I'm treated like garbage and I'm insulted. And you wonder why there's so few folks willing to contribute or step forward to help? I wonder just how many other folks were treated this very same way and run off by the attitude.

You want contributions? Here you go..... Here's a big one to start with.. What I've found is 90% of the stuff in the forums is out of date - so badly out of date in fact - that it has no real relevance to EQEmu as it stands now... So why is it still accessible?? Would you keep old and broken car parts around if you knew they couldn't ever be used again??? I think not.. where are your forum moderators?

There's so much crap (and yes - it's utterly crap) that a few of us in an effort to make heads or tails out of all of it - posted what was relavent to a personal website so that we could eventually update the wiki. And what do we get for making an effort? Shit on. Insulted. Belittled. Because we use a personal website to sort it - we're being anti community and we're stealing intellectual property? Who's more anti community... the one's with the attitude running off everyone and anyone who might help.. or the folks who are in the process of sorting out valid info/data from the invalid info/data? I could have just as easily saved the info to my hard drive.. what media I choose to sort the info out with is IRRELEVANT - because once done - it was going to be put back into the common files - in this case - the wiki (which is an utter piece of shit - anyone and everyone can make changes to it - and they may not have a clue on what they're doing). Point in case - there's around 5 or 6 different tutorials on setting up your own server.. now which one is up to date and 100% correct? Now - out of those.. how many folks just coming into the project would know which one is the most up to date and correct one? Point made.

And while we're at it.. let's discuss ownership of intellectual property - and the fit that was utterly thrown over code relating to a program we had been searching for... if you want to get technical about it - this entire community is based off of stolen intellectual property... Debate it.. Rename it.. use the wording you like to make you sleep well at night... Whatever floats your boat.. boil it down to what it is - Sony/Verant came up with the idea of EverQuest and all it's rich in game history and we have stolen it - but I'm not here to split hairs about that. Extremely few folks knew that EQExtractor was a personal pet project of FNW's.. all we knew is that we had found links to it all over the damn place - that it had been mentioned a lot - and it appeared to do what we were trying to do - which was to break out the data out of packet logs so that we could populate our server and fix various things like missing doors, incorrect spawn locations etc. Those very same posts in the forums point back to the CVS holdings and how to retrieve it.. and we stole it because we simply downloaded it to use it? Um - I think someone needs to take a hard look at the facts.

I'd like to say that instead of throwing a fit about it - why not just simply say that it was something that you had personally developed and that you didn't wish to release the code or share the program? Short.. sweet.. simple.. to the point.. and above all NOT done in an insulting or degrading manner... Rip apart the code to learn? I'm supposed to rip apart code I don't really understand - that I'm not supposed to have - and that's incomplete.. and I'm to learn from that? Ok - can we say - triple standards?

I'm not taking sides here.. things were said on both sides that were wrong.. and I'm not going to sit here and point fingers about who said what and diw what first to start all of this mess.. think what you will.. but at this point I highly doubt I'm going to make any sort of effort to contribute after how I got treated yesterday - and it's no wonder anyone else does for that matter. I did NOTHING WRONG but ask questions while trying to learn and for that - I got what I did yesterday... If that's how I'm to be treated for trying - I think I'll be one of the freeloaders tks and pls because there's less hassle involved.

[image]

Obviously I missed what happened yesterday :o

[wraithlord98]

Here's what happened (chatlog):

http://www.rafb.net/paste/results/F56aOR50.html

[image]

Lol you sure caught Fathernitwit in a bad mood, welcome to the new world of EQEMu, since your join date is October 2002 I think you know it was not always this way.

[gottasummer]

If I was a forum supermoderator, all of those outdated posts would be gone :P

Anyway, just live with it, look for build numbers at the top... the community I will admit seems to be dieing compared to before, when we had literally one hundred or MORE servers online at once, often much more... and MORE devs.

[Windcatcher]

And while we're at it.. let's discuss ownership of intellectual property - and the fit that was utterly thrown over code relating to a program we had been searching for... if you want to get technical about it - this entire community is based off of stolen intellectual property... Debate it.. Rename it.. use the wording you like to make you sleep well at night... Whatever floats your boat.. boil it down to what it is - Sony/Verant came up with the idea of EverQuest and all it's rich in game history and we have stolen it - but I'm not here to split hairs about that. Extremely few folks knew that EQExtractor was a personal pet project of FNW's.. all we knew is that we had found links to it all over the damn place - that it had been mentioned a lot - and it appeared to do what we were trying to do - which was to break out the data out of packet logs so that we could populate our server and fix various things like missing doors, incorrect spawn locations etc. Those very same posts in the forums point back to the CVS holdings and how to retrieve it.. and we stole it because we simply downloaded it to use it? Um - I think someone needs to take a hard look at the facts.

There is no reason whatsoever that anyone needs to make a server that uses their zones and packet data (spawns, door locations, loot, you get the pitcure). Anyone who has a problem with that should go download OpenZone (and the sample zones I've made for it), make some more zones (like Scorpious2k and others have), and make your own database, with all your own stuff. I'd be happy to talk people through the process, and I'm sure there are others here who have gone down the same road who would be amenable to that sort of thing as well. Collecting packets for the sake of content is not necessary at all. You can even make all your own items in the item database so as not to use theirs (heck, I think there's even a spell editor available here somewhere for making all your own spells). A lot of us here, while not *server devs*, are committed to creating the tools and content for playing without using any SOE property (if some kind soul could make some sample creature models we can tackle that as well).

[solid11]

Way I see it is, there is no "Join Premium Membership" on the main page of this site. Meaning, you get what you get-it's free...

No one is paid to keep everything spic and span, shiny, new and current. If you can filter through the endless posts and documents and figure it out and get things working, then you deserve to be here.

When I was new to the community, and after seeing the flames some newbs have gotten off here for their first post, I was affraid to ask any stupid questions. I just looked it up and figured it out. Took me 2 months before I even had a server up and I tell you what, I was never so excited or proud of myself.

Just trying to say don't "expect" anything on here. Also be grateful for what others have done, and try to do things for yourself. You will feel better about it in the end.

so am I sopose to go through 4-5 years of posts to decide what is "good" enough to stay and what isnt?

I am the only active Forum Admin, and there is 1 active forum moderator, to deal with over 100 new posts a week, on top of jobs / school / family we have.

The wikki was added and all the tutorial marked bad just so people would have something as updated as THEY WANTED, dont need to be a forum moderator to fix it, so instead of complaining about stuff FIX IT!!

[RangerDown]

The tutorial section of the forum does have some historical significance, and it's not our thing to go deleting records of discussion. The posts in the Tutorial sections won't be going anywhere soon, whether you want them to or not.

We did what we could to try and make it clear that what's in there is outdated, both by (1) making a nice sticky at the top, and (2) locking all tutorial forums into read-only.

If you have any suggestion on how we can make clearer that we've phased out the tutorial section, please feel free to say so. (No, we're not going to touch every post in that area.) But neither development nor the moderators are going to respond to any more complaint that the "tutorial section [in the forums] is outdated." We already know it's outdated -- we're just curious as to why YOU didn't know.

[gottasummer]

Originally Posted by mattmeck

so am I sopose to go through 4-5 years of posts to decide what is "good" enough to stay and what isnt?

I am the only active Forum Admin, and there is 1 active forum moderator, to deal with over 100 new posts a week, on top of jobs / school / family we have.

The wikki was added and all the tutorial marked bad just so people would have something as updated as THEY WANTED, dont need to be a forum moderator to fix it, so instead of complaining about stuff FIX IT!!

No need to get mad.

My point was that there are many old topics, I wouldn't mind helping out.

FatherNitwit had told me to talk to him in about two weeks or so, if I am still up for it, he might consider it.

All that my point was, there is a lot of information that is exactly the same, which I have found to confuse many people, including myself. By taking time gradually to remove outdated information, and move newer information to the wiki, but still allowing tutorials on the forums, all of this could be prevented.

My idea:
In the tutorials section, have different forum per version, one for 6.1, 6.2, etc, this way, when a build is considered dead, you can just mark it as read-only.

[deazone]

Damn people, it really is not that hard. I setup a server without once posting how to do it. All of the information is present in the forums/wiki. These people wrote the code for you and provided databases, what else do you want them to do??? Hold your hand while you piss.. Grow the fuck up.. If you want to work with the code, then learn how to program first. If you can program look through the damned code. It is all right there.

[Dr Zauis]

The outdated stuff is still usefull...As soon as I began seeing the whole picture I could see that the outdated stuff still applies and that the old versionsmand the new are essentially the same with the same "parts" involved. Just a few numbers have changed with time.

So I for one want the outdated stuff to stay.

[image]

More stable than the later ones? pfft whatever lawl

[gottasummer]

I do recall 4.x and 5.x being easier to setup, but again, they were not as advanced.

Originally Posted by image

More stable than the later ones? pfft whatever lawl