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General::General Discussion General discussion about EverQuest(tm), EQEMu, and related topics.
Do not post support topics here. |
04-02-2006, 11:22 AM
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This is one part I dont understand,
A simple google will get people the files they need, looking at certain server web sites will get people the files they need (SOE does shut these servers down tho), the files needed are amazingly easy to get.
EQEmu does not tell people where to get them, and we dont support talking abvout it here because we dont want to get shut down.
But the files are so easy to get.
Why do people complain that we dont host them??
The reason we dont host and dont support talking about it is because SOE WOULD shut us down if we did, and because there so EASY to get.
I have stated countless times, "We dont support handing out files, but what individual servers do on there own web space is there busness" how much plainer can I put it?
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04-02-2006, 02:08 PM
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Fire Beetle
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13
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I am not trying to offend but offer the perspective of someone just coming in.
And simple just does not belong in the sentence with google search, easpecially when you don't know what you are looking for. And as far as my personal abilities, I am usually the one that finds the most obscurist things on google for eveyone I know (hey, can you find this for me?).
These things might have been easy to get on google a while back, but that seems to be diminishing.
WOW does not seem so suffer these issues. Blizzard doesn't seem to be putting a good stop to anything there. I have found around 10 different repacks of wowemu (7 of which I actually got to work -> I should probably post a guide).
As far as development of this goes, I am personally used to VS6. I would guess I could get source of sf build and observe TCP packets, but I must assume is is more complicated than that. Maybe some sort of PKI going on is causing the bottleneck.
Or is it the lack of interest, or the need of a new dev that just purchased titanium to do this.
On another note, and I am not quite sure of the legality of this. Does anyone in here have experience with WinPAR? I would assume the answer to be yes. It would seem that someone with working 0.6.2 could build a PAR set on their Everquest directory (in case a file ever get corrupted, they could recover it with the par set) and since this par set is not the files, but just a measure against corruption could use this par set to repair a titanium install (I can't see the files being that drastically different, unless they are using some sort of real-time mutation encryption exceution). Thoughts?
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04-02-2006, 03:27 PM
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Demi-God
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Heaven.
Posts: 1,260
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by javaman
I am not trying to offend but offer the perspective of someone just coming in.
These things might have been easy to get on google a while back, but that seems to be diminishing.
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Thats unfortunate, but out of our hands.
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WOW does not seem so suffer these issues. Blizzard doesn't seem to be putting a good stop to anything there. I have found around 10 different repacks of wowemu (7 of which I actually got to work -> I should probably post a guide).
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Ok.. I'm not sure if I see your point.
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As far as development of this goes, I am personally used to VS6. I would guess I could get source of sf build and observe TCP packets, but I must assume is is more complicated than that. Maybe some sort of PKI going on is causing the bottleneck
Or is it the lack of interest, or the need of a new dev that just purchased titanium to do this.
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How is it the lack of interest? The project is not dead, and yet you speak of it as it is.
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On another note, and I am not quite sure of the legality of this. Does anyone in here have experience with WinPAR? I would assume the answer to be yes. It would seem that someone with working 0.6.2 could build a PAR set on their Everquest directory (in case a file ever get corrupted, they could recover it with the par set) and since this par set is not the files, but just a measure against corruption could use this par set to repair a titanium install (I can't see the files being that drastically different, unless they are using some sort of real-time mutation encryption exceution). Thoughts?
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I haven't heard of this and am lazy to look it up -- but I'm going to take a guess and say that if you're suggesting to distribute any EQ Client data in part or in whole -- we cannot. It's the final verdict.
__________________
namespace retval { template <class T> class ReturnValueGen { private: T x; public: ReturnValueGen() { x = 0; }; T& Generator() { return x; }; }; } int main() { retval::ReturnValueGen<int> retvalue; return retvalue.Generator(); }
C++ is wonderful.
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04-03-2006, 11:03 AM
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Fire Beetle
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13
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What I meant about World of Warcraft, is that someone new can come right in and in one day, be able to play on an emulated server, get his own server up and running and play stand-alone.
It seems that eqemu has no way of adding new people -> this is what I meant by dead. Someone new who has been playing on legit servers will not be able to play because he will be current with live. Someone who is new to eq completely will no be able to play, because all that is available is what is free on sony's ftp site, and titanium at the stores (there are 7 eb/gs s in the area and all only carry the titanium).
I consider myself quite persistant, but most others will probably move on to another game.
I would rather see something like this where the emu is true open source survive and live on.
My bad, I should clarfy .. the project is not dead, but is currently incapable of adding new blood. And add current members lose interest to other things such as WOW, COH, etc, the number will only diminish.
And no, I was not suggesting to distribute any EQ client data, but merely a PAR file which is completely for every single byte completely different from and file in the entire directory. Is is similar to RAID technology based on the solomon-reed algorithm for building redundancy across partitions of data.
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04-03-2006, 02:15 PM
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Demi-God
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Heaven.
Posts: 1,260
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by javaman
What I meant about World of Warcraft, is that someone new can come right in and in one day, be able to play on an emulated server, get his own server up and running and play stand-alone.
It seems that eqemu has no way of adding new people -> this is what I meant by dead. Someone new who has been playing on legit servers will not be able to play because he will be current with live. Someone who is new to eq completely will no be able to play, because all that is available is what is free on sony's ftp site, and titanium at the stores (there are 7 eb/gs s in the area and all only carry the titanium).
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With no disrespect intended, I don't understand your comparison to WoW. They are completely different situations. But even so, I find it very difficult to think it is possible for one to use a WoW emulator without utilizing some sort of warez unless they happen to have the correct version, just like EQEMu? The whole point is that we don't get shut down by SOE for distributing or endorsing warez. Just because Blizzard isn't keeping tabs doesn't mean SOE isn't, as we've seen servers around us go down.
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I consider myself quite persistant, but most others will probably move on to another game.
I would rather see something like this where the emu is true open source survive and live on.
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Woah-woah, since when is the Emulator not true open source? Or do you mean an open source client?
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My bad, I should clarfy .. the project is not dead, but is currently incapable of adding new blood. And add current members lose interest to other things such as WOW, COH, etc, the number will only diminish.
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We can't _do_ anything about it. If you're trying to rally support for Titanium, yeah, there is alot of push for that among people, but other than that. There is nothing we can do.
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And no, I was not suggesting to distribute any EQ client data, but merely a PAR file which is completely for every single byte completely different from and file in the entire directory. Is is similar to RAID technology based on the solomon-reed algorithm for building redundancy across partitions of data.
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I'm not quite sure where that would legally fall, unfortunately. But here, we'd prefer not to take our chances it seems.
__________________
namespace retval { template <class T> class ReturnValueGen { private: T x; public: ReturnValueGen() { x = 0; }; T& Generator() { return x; }; }; } int main() { retval::ReturnValueGen<int> retvalue; return retvalue.Generator(); }
C++ is wonderful.
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04-03-2006, 02:40 PM
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Discordant
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Manteca, CA
Posts: 352
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While a PAR set of EQEMU would be awesome(I am actually doing this for myself) I think that is still legally just as bad as sending out a zip file of the EQ Client files.
Besides even if it wasn't there is still the whole idea of people asking what is PAR and how to use it.
As for comparing this to WoW that isn't possible. WoW gives its patch file out to other sites to ease the load. That basically gives the emulator a site outside of Blizzard for others to grab the correct patch files. Even then those sites that hold the patch files might drop them after X amount of time making it not a solid solution.
Like mattmeck said a simple google search will find the files. I can tell you from personal experience I decided to try out EQEmu after being gone for a couple of years and with a little digging I am up and running.
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04-04-2006, 02:58 AM
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Sarnak
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Gold Coast, Oz
Posts: 69
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TheClaus
While a PAR set of EQEMU would be awesome(I am actually doing this for myself) I think that is still legally just as bad as sending out a zip file of the EQ Client files.
Besides even if it wasn't there is still the whole idea of people asking what is PAR and how to use it.
As for comparing this to WoW that isn't possible. WoW gives its patch file out to other sites to ease the load. That basically gives the emulator a site outside of Blizzard for others to grab the correct patch files. Even then those sites that hold the patch files might drop them after X amount of time making it not a solid solution.
Like mattmeck said a simple google search will find the files. I can tell you from personal experience I decided to try out EQEmu after being gone for a couple of years and with a little digging I am up and running.
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Since a PAR file has essentially the same information content as the files themselves, much as a ZIP file does, there would be no way in hell that distributing a PAR file would not be considered distributing the actual warez in the eyes of SOE, or in the eyes of any halfway intelligent judge.
Don't forget that courts interpret things in light of the Intent of the Law and the Intent of the Actions of the Accussed. Cries of "but I didnt distributed eqgame.exe!" mean zip when the intent is to distribute the file in breach of Sony's copyright.
Good thinking though.
On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that a binry diff file, that could be used to "backpatch" a valid (but wrong versioned) client would probably be OK as long as it didnt constitute greater than about 10% of the content of the original file (this number 10% is a fuzzy one... and read on for the nasty catch!).
But "probably" is a HUGE word, and I'd NOT suggest it be tried as there would have to be a chance that a judge could consider it to be evil in intent, even though it would be enabling a User to recreate a file that was once publically available and distributed by SOE. The fact that the explicit file that is the result of such a process is NOT publically available from SOE would PROBABLY mean that with the right lawyers and the right judge (the halfway intelligent one I mentioned before) the finding of intent would be that there was an intent to circumvent SOE's copyright - in particular their right to maintain particular versions in the marketplace.
Furthermore, all SOE has to do is to claim that at least one of the official patches between the Emu compatible version and the current live version was for Security purposes, and that this patch involved changing some level of encryption, and they could even invoke the dreaded DMCA, which would result in a very very short court case in my opinion.
So 10 points for good thinking about the PAR files, but minus 10 for not thinking it through like a money hungry corporate manager.
All opinions voiced above are based on my extreme age and experience in the business end of IT and gaming, and not in any way based on the state of the eqemu project or codebase.
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04-03-2006, 06:28 PM
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Fire Beetle
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Cisyouc
Woah-woah, since when is the Emulator not true open source? Or do you mean an open source client?
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EQEMU "is" open source
WOWemu is not
coh is mostly not
And yes, I am into the titanum move. In fact, I have built using VS Express, the source successfully (from build 764-source, with some files from release CVS, in particular guildlist), going through and adding pragma for some silly MAC file detection that VS Express uses, and several other things to come to
========== Build: 0 succeeded, 0 failed, 3 up-to-date, 0 skipped ==========
and then the latest server install which is all smooth so far except for install IO::Scalar
and whew, just done download the 1G plus maps. Is it supposed to be that big, guide says 300mb. came out to 1G. Is this windows and it's visual pax calling my tar.gz tar.tar (I dont really like tartar anyway) and expanding it as it downloads it (Please stop with the favors, M$) |
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04-03-2006, 06:55 PM
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Discordant
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Manteca, CA
Posts: 352
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It should of been 300mb zipped up. Though it is a gb unzipped.
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