Populating newer zones..?

[John Adams]

Angelox, I agree with you on most things you just said. Bravo, and well stated, as usual. However, the problem I see with Emulators is population. If your server is "exactly like live" (or like live was back in the golden era of EQ), that means pretty slow progression - even WITH full groups/guilds of people. Anyone who used to play EQ has already played to level 50+ the slow way. Most want to stampede at 10x level bonus and get to "the good stuff" that they have missed since quitting. And, since most of that content is still missing or un-tuned, they play, kick a gods ass once or twice, get bored, and quit. I had the same experience as you, GM'd all my buddies who #level 255'd themselves and killed the entire world. and they are now gone. But, the world is there for them as-is should they get the desire.

I'd love to run a public server, one that's finely tuned. Hell, I'd love to offer mine now as-is, because I too am still amazed that this works! But, I do not have the time to be a GM, or programmer, or manage the data. My job is very busy, and my home life away from the computer is as well. So it's not all about people not caring or not wanting to contribute. Believe me, if I had the time, I'd be in there with you tweaking and doing all I could. I feel like a sponge sometimes, but that's my life ~grin~. Maybe someday...

All in all, good points from everyone. Oh, and my original thought about excessive loots dropping. If you are the only player in 10 zones on a given day, you will grow tired of never accomplishing anything, and leave that server for one that offers faster XP and more loot at young ages. That's my opinion, anyway.

(are we still on topic? hehe!) Good discussion though. As for PEQ site, I get responses there. Maybe it was an off week?

[bobbydole]

Wow.. I guess I didn't expect this kind of response, all I wanted to know was the best way of populating the zones based on packets collection. And it sounds like I can't just login to live and collect the NPC names, spawn locs and pathing info, because none of the packet collectors currently work with live. And i haven't been able to figure what to do with the packet files currently at www.projecteq.net/logs/ (which seems like they're what i'm looking for), eqbuilder/eqExtractor doesn't seem to work.. :(

So i'm unsure on the steps I should take next. I would like to get the zones populated as close to EQLive as possible, but i'm not sure I have the time to manually add the mobs to the zones. I don't know how long it would take compared with using the packet logs.

As for the problem with low population and stuff, I'm not really sure I care about that stuff right now. For me EQLive is the reference, which everything else should be based off of, so you want that as good as you can get it. Fine-Tuning it for your population size should be done by a server-by-server basis. So when i get PoD up and running, and submitted it to Angelox's DB or PEQ or whatever, people can do whatever they want with it. But there should always be that reference for every one to access. I think that's what the PEQ guys were aiming for, but it (appears) to be bogged down. That's why I think Angelox's DB is a good idea, like PEQ but with out the data restrictions.

However, getting back on topic, whats the best way of getting the zones populated?

[John Adams]

Originally Posted by bobbydole

However, getting back on topic, whats the best way of getting the zones populated?

You can either go off a good memory, EQ content sites that detail mob placement and stats, or import one of the zones post-PEQ from Cavedude's database and get to tweakin to live-like. Other than that, I do not know of any way to currently run around EQLive and gather spawns, objects, doors, etc.


And Angelox, fwiw, your questions have never been "dumb". I've learned more off of just your posts than almost anyone else here. You should feel good about your contributions, indeed.

Originally Posted by mattmeck

CHOO CHOO

LOL @ Matt

[bobbydole]

Originally Posted by John Adams

You can either go off a good memory, EQ content sites that detail mob placement and stats, or import one of the zones post-PEQ from Cavedude's database and get to tweakin to live-like. Other than that, I do not know of any way to currently run around EQLive and gather spawns, objects, doors, etc.

I think I know the answer, but what about using the already collected packets from the projecteq's website..? Any one have any updates on eqbuilder or eqextractor?

[Angelox]

Originally Posted by bobbydole

Wow.. I guess I didn't expect this kind of response, all I wanted to know was the best way of populating the zones based on packets collection. And it sounds like I can't just login to live and collect the NPC names, spawn locs and pathing info, because none of the packet collectors currently work with live. And i haven't been able to figure what to do with the packet files currently at www.projecteq.net/logs/ (which seems like they're what i'm looking for), eqbuilder/eqExtractor doesn't seem to work.. :(

So i'm unsure on the steps I should take next. I would like to get the zones populated as close to EQLive as possible, but i'm not sure I have the time to manually add the mobs to the zones. I don't know how long it would take compared with using the packet logs.

As for the problem with low population and stuff, I'm not really sure I care about that stuff right now. For me EQLive is the reference, which everything else should be based off of, so you want that as good as you can get it. Fine-Tuning it for your population size should be done by a server-by-server basis. So when i get PoD up and running, and submitted it to Angelox's DB or PEQ or whatever, people can do whatever they want with it. But there should always be that reference for every one to access. I think that's what the PEQ guys were aiming for, but it (appears) to be bogged down. That's why I think Angelox's DB is a good idea, like PEQ but with out the data restrictions.

However, getting back on topic, whats the best way of getting the zones populated?

Don't get your hopes up with the "packet collectors" - at best, I would say they give you starting point on the given zone you're working on.
The only real way to get good work done is to get out there, choose a zone , and start working on it. This zone you choose needs to be one you are familiar with and have playe a lot. You will have to learn how to use and juggle editors around, you will need to learn Perl and Sql (not depend on just the editors).
Here's some of my method of bringing a zone to "live" - let say I want to do BoT;
I've played BOT. so I know a little about it, but not all. I start with my browser and go here;
http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/zonelist.html choose "Torden, the Bastion of Thunder", then I pocceed to copy past a list of all named mobs with their drops- example;
----------
Atle Cloudburst 64 - 64 Monster

Blue Diamond
Brick of Ethereal Energy
Diamond
Fungus Clump
Lightning Encased Signet
Orb of Electricity
Ornate Chain Bracelet Pattern
Ornate Silk Boot Pattern
Peridot
Raw Diamond
Scepter of Lightning
Shard of Pure Energy
Spectral Parchment
Strand of Ether
Earring of Thunder
--------------

That's entry number one with his drops - these drops need to be sorted out into different loot drop lists, such as "general" (raw diamond, strand of ether, etc), rare ( Ornate Silk Boot Pattern, etc), and unique (Earring of Thunder, Scepter of Lightning),. The latter apllies only to this named mob. the first two drop lists, you'll be building on as you go, and will apply to most mobs in the zone. Also, sometimes there is extremly rare drops in the zone which would require another drop list.

After I have made a full list of all named and printed it out - I then dump Cavedudes data for that zone and merge it into my DB. This gives me a "head start".

Then I start to make the named mobs ; I get their stats from whats posted at allakhazam, and looking at what other mobs in the zone are and what they do.

After setting that up, then I look at the grids and pathing add/fix whatever needs it. Also look around for mistakes; for example in droga, Im still removing "cave_guardians" that for some reason are duped all over the zone ( and this was taken from the PEQ db).

the rest is "fine tuning"; if the zone doesn't work, I make a "zoner" - the named mobs get put into spawn cycle.

Finally, there's the quests (raids, etc) , and i still need to a lot of that. The most important thing to this is to "stay with it" , don't give up easy, and finish what you start.
There's no "easy" way around this, no matter what you do, you will end up doing a lot of "data-entry" work.

Edit;
If you do decide to work on a zone, tell us which zone, so we can choose another or you make sure no one else is already building it.

[bobbydole]

Originally Posted by Angelox

Don't get your hopes up with the "packet collectors" - at best, I would say they give you starting point on the given zone you're working on.
After I have made a full list of all named and printed it out - I then dump Cavedudes data for that zone and merge it into my DB. This gives me a "head start".

Then I start to make the named mobs ; I get their stats from whats posted at allakhazam, and looking at what other mobs in the zone are and what they do.

Edit;
If you do decide to work on a zone, tell us which zone, so we can choose another or you make sure no one else is already building it.

thanks for the tips!

All I was really looking for was a head start from the packet collections. I really didn't want to have to manually input all the mobs in the zone. I actually did get eqextractor to work, i can some info out of a pf file and put it into a text file. however I'm not sure how helpful it will be since most of the files I was looking at are actually text files and not pf files. I just happened to click the pf file, so I thought they were all pf files. Anyway hopefully i can start on getting some zone going tonight.

btw happy birthday!

[Angelox]

Originally Posted by bobbydole

thanks for the tips!

All I was really looking for was a head start from the packet collections. I really didn't want to have to manually input all the mobs in the zone. I actually did get eqextractor to work, i can some info out of a pf file and put it into a text file. however I'm not sure how helpful it will be since most of the files I was looking at are actually text files and not pf files. I just happened to click the pf file, so I thought they were all pf files. Anyway hopefully i can start on getting some zone going tonight.

btw happy birthday!

Cavedude has most of these zones populated - I don't know how he did it, but what ever he has, is very EQLive-Like", just unfinished. I suspect he may have use packet collectors also. This is why I start with his work.
Fact of the matter is, if you look good at the PEQ database you will see "left-over" data in there, that matches perfectly with the CaveDude DB.
For example, when I dumped npcs from cavedudes to to my DB (which was started with PEQ), the loots were already there, just like the ones in Cavedudes.
I think what PEQ did to start was, use Cavedudes as a base to start. I don't think starting from scratch (packet-collectors) is really not needed -these other people already have done that and have the data. what could be left for a packet collector to get in a zone? Named Mob? it could take days for just one of those to spawn - I'd rather find mine at allakhazam.
I dunno, maybe I have the wrong idea on what a packet collector does

[John Adams]

Bobby is definitely obsessed with the packet collector data, even though I have said numerous times that Cavedude has plenty o' data, just not tuned (or named mobs in some cases). I cannot say anymore without repeating myself.

I personally thing since the Emu has been developed up to Luclin (really), that all the data needed is in place in PEQ. What more is needed? Well, except to spawn some PoP gods and solo them just for fun.

[bobbydole]

Ooh come on.. I'm not totally obsessed! Well.. ok maybe.. a little bit. but really all I want is to populate the new zones as close to live as I can get it. I would rather have a system that automates most of the tedious stuff, and can get the data directly from live rather then based on my memory. There are some zones that i would like populated but I've never been there..

[Angelox]

Originally Posted by John Adams

(are we still on topic? hehe!) Good discussion though. As for PEQ site, I get responses there. Maybe it was an off week?

I dunno, maybe they didn't like me - I'm sort of a "newbee" and can ask real stupid questions at times.
A lot of times, I can't see the sky because I'm standing under a tree - this results in a stupid question: "where did the sky go?"

CHOO CHOO

[Angelox]

Originally Posted by mattmeck

CHOO CHOO

Is this a new one?