NPC Dual Wield

[ChaosSlayerZ]

well the 40+ cap is very strange.
on LIVE NPC were always MUCh stronger than players, and with levels they were getting stronger and stronger.
Why would npc warrior be getting DW 25 levels after players?

Not to mention this creates a strong disbalance between melee classes who reply on DW vs those who don't. For example since Paladin/SK doesn't use DW, they is not hampered by this, but their spells keep growing for 20 levels, while npc warriors/rogues/monks/rangers are lagging 20 levels behind

[ChaosSlayerZ]

I have been thinking about this some more, and there is yet another issue directly related.

Pets are essentialy npcs, and if npcs cannot DW untill 40+, neither can pets. (tested this separatly as well)
On LIVE lev 24 necromancer pet was first pet who could DW - this was well known fact as for all necros it was an important level to achieve (the lev of pet itself is only 22) - which means that all npcs should in fact very closly match player level to get the skill.

So here is one definite reason why curent 40+ cap on DW for npc is very wrong for no apparent reason.

Could we please have this corrected?

[AndMetal]

Can anything other than the level 24 pet or Monks (NPC-wise) duel wield at 24? Or is the pet a special case?

[ChaosSlayerZ]

OK I don't have any actual (current) LIVE access but I am prety sure all npc warriors (most of npcs on LIVE are warriors) could dual wield from lev 15 (or whenever warriors get their DW skill)

A research into older days "npc secrets" postings could help in this regard.

BTW another thing is, I read here
"//can only dual weild without a weapon if your a monk"

seems wrong...

Npc should ALWAYS DW even wihout the weapons (hey players can) - think about it that 99% of of all npc spawn wihout a weapon of any kind (specialy non humanoid types , like animals) - if none of them could DW - this would cut their DPS in half at higher levels. Now I may not remember my noob days (I was too busy trying to survive rather than count how many times npc hits), but from my days camping in BoT I remember very well those 850+ quads coming from Van Krigers, complited with Kick and a Bash. And they almost never wield any weapon at all, and were not monks.

On top of that, I just remembered the Needlites in Echo Caverns. The buggers were 22-26 and absolutly 100% QUADED


Of course if you want a SOLID prove, we have to bug someone with LIVE access to go and test this. But I am 99.99% sure that no way an NPC warrior could not DW when a player allready could. Just didn't work this way on LIVE =)

Not to mention, again, as I said before, a huge disbalance which exists between warriors/rogues who only fight at HALF dps, while paladins/sk who don't get the skill, stil getting steady rise of their combat potential via spells

More on pets- I doubt very much pets use formula much diffirent from actual npcs, and as I said, both necro and mage pets could DW from pet level 22+
And I very sure BST pets can too, it just harder to prove without parsing since you don't actualy see them swinging/wielding.

I am prety sure Trev has LIVE access (and maybe Cavedude) could verify this for us for all instances.

As a contingency plan, if you accept this, I propose to go with a "DW NPC Rule" which automaticly allows all npc of proper class and level to DW without weapons as allowed per actual class skill table in DB. Then each admin can decide how they would want this.

[Tharkun]

I believe Chaos is correct at least as far as 40 being to high. I played a Necro that only got to 50's. I know for a fact that I had a pet that DW's while I was XP kiting in DL. Not exactly sure what level that was.

As far as quad's... that's a Special Attack in the NPC_Types Table so DW doesn't enter in to it.

Ideally I think this should be swapped to a rule, as some purists will want to have it "The it is on Live" ... which probably changed at least once per expansion...
others will not want to re-balance the NPC's
others still will think it's awesome that they can change it.

my 2cp... for what's it's worth with this exchange rate