Classic or era-based server content

[image]

It is a huge undertaking, devnoob and I personally have been reverting from a PEQ database because our original database was so old back from the early GuildWars days. We do this during/inbetween the servers we host (when people play on it) and this new rendition has been going on since about 2011. I am still fixing things to this day and some things can't be fixed sometimes without modifying the client.

A good example of 'client side' issues is the 'brown skeleton' model from classic -- you won't be able to get it working unless you do some impressive texture/model changes (or modify the client). Eg. http://i54.tinypic.com/k21ogk.jpg. Some things really come down to nitpicking of how classic it needs to be.

How much work do you want to put into it and how much time you want to learn how to do new things because if you take on a responsibility of the eqemu server by yourself you inherit the responsibilities of the code base, database and the client.

[AdrianD]

Long read...

I agree with image and provocating. It is a huge undertaking. I'm just one guy with limited knowledge and there is enough within the database to consume unknown hours/days/weeks to alter to a previous time.

There is a certain segment of folks here who wish to have classic/progression content and I believe this segment is large enough to warrant a bit of organization.

I recently had a conversation with someone about this. Below are the edited parts which may have relevance to this topic. Maybe something here will entice others in some way:

I have other zones I intend to revamp with the same process. Coming up with the process took the most amount of time. It was a first for using queries in certain ways. The next revamp will take a fraction of the time, especially with good data.

I kick myself and SMH when I see myself and others working individually on our own projects. I understand the pride involved with working our asses off on these projects for whatever the reason.

I haven't reached out much until recently for something like sharing the workload. I haven't been confident enough in my abilities to pull my weight, until recently.

I don't know if I can offer anybody anything but, I am sick and tired of seeing other people do the same exact thing I am doing. It's totally pointless for me, or anyone else, to spend hours/days/weeks on stuff that has been done more than once when this is supposed to be a community.

Not trying to rant and I know my point may not be totally clear. As this pertains to you: I am trying to find the most accurate data from the classic era. I have an old axclassic database from I-don't-know-when. The DB is unfinished but it has enough good data to get started on several zones. We may have used the same DB.

I'm definitely not a "developer" in the professional sense. I went from basically zero knowledge to the little I have now. I don't know C++ yet, I couldn't create a quest (lua) script without looking at a similar script but, I can work with the database. I'm not a pro at it although I can actually do things that I had to put on the backburner in the past because I didn't know how to do them.

Now that I can do some of these things, I question whether or not I should do them. It's rewarding to know I can get this stuff done but...

I have an AXClassic DB from 4/7/14. I am unsure if that was the last update. I have cavedude's last peq dump (last February?) which is very close to what I have from about six months prior. I've updated the source and DB tables (~7/30/15) to accomodate the source and I am not looking to stray from that due to my limitations.

I enjoy taking data and putting it to use. Solving the problem to put it to use. It was gratifying to take the CT data from axclassic, for instance, and plug it in to the peq schema. It took quite a bit of data vetting, as I call it. But, after this I realized there is still a fair amount of work to fine tune the zone, not to mention what I will do with Feerrott. (I have ideas of what I could do to balance it to the revamped CT without a ton of work but, I appreciate continuity more than an easy fix)

Axclassic DB has, what appears to be, good data on droga/nurga. I will likely do the same with them.

A major concern is balancing the classic planes. I was not playing EQ more regularly until around luclin/PoP and I didn't raid. Data from peq seems good but, I don't have a frame of reference. I use P99 wiki as a source and whatever else I can find. The P99 wiki, in many places, is a copy/paste of data from peq so I question it's authenticity.

I'm not as concerned about post-classic data as much because there is more information out there about it. The EQLive devs in later expansions seemed to do more global changes to things which are much easier to identify.

I agree and getting it perfect does not consume me. I personally feel getting the classic data as accurate as possible is more important than anything else, as far as content/data goes.

I make what I call "expansion queries" which take data from the main DB (peq) to create specific "expansions". Currently, they do a pretty good job of separating the expansion and era-specific data. I added a few simple columns in the main DB which identify the expansion and in the "expansion settings" stage of these queries, use this setting to create what I call the "usable database" based on the criteria I put in the settings. I don't need to get the timeline 100% correct. For example, paineel came out around SolRo temple, I did not include paineel in my "planes" expansion. Epic 1.0 are with the "Hole" expansion, and so on.

I could explain the process more, because you probably know, it's not as simple as joining a few tables and setting conditions. At this point, the process is highly accurate. The process and the accuracy of the content depend completely on the few columns I added to a few tables.

It's not without flaws. I have found some and fixing a few of them while keeping continuity of content takes some thought and a fair amount of time.

I'm currently up to "luclin" (for a total of 7 different "usable" DB builds) and changing the queries for later expansions is usually a pretty simple endeavor. These builds are a one-click process from a current usable or live DB. I have original DB live and could make it luclin in five minutes and login and see the pretty new player models with my old SSoY X 2. =)

I'm not saying what I have set up is different or special, that's silly. I'm a rookie.

My interest in this ebbs and flows as I am sure it does with others. I don't have any expectations although I am impatient. I work on stuff I know I can do and try to learn in between.

There is kindof a web, a simple web (if that makes sense), of connections in my current DB linked through the queries. I haven't flushed out all the inconsistencies but it's still pretty good. The beautiful thing about it is, it's simple at it's core.

I am willing to share everything I have done. The original DB, the source and everything else has been shared with me. I won't claim what I have done is original, hasn't been done before or special in any way. I have spent a great deal of time on my project.

[provocating]

Originally Posted by image

It is a huge undertaking, devnoob and I personally have been reverting from a PEQ database because our original database was so old back from the early GuildWars days. We do this during/inbetween the servers we host (when people play on it) and this new rendition has been going on since about 2011. I am still fixing things to this day and some things can't be fixed sometimes without modifying the client.

A good example of 'client side' issues is the 'brown skeleton' model from classic -- you won't be able to get it working unless you do some impressive texture/model changes (or modify the client). Eg. http://i54.tinypic.com/k21ogk.jpg. Some things really come down to nitpicking of how classic it needs to be.

How much work do you want to put into it and how much time you want to learn how to do new things because if you take on a responsibility of the eqemu server by yourself you inherit the responsibilities of the code base, database and the client.

I can tell you now, with no doubt I have spent anywhere from 4~8 hours a day on just bug fixes, pathing issues, managing my server. With Legacy of FrostStone this has been the norm for the last 4 months. Sign up on my Mantis site and just looking at how many tickets I get a week, those are just the ones that people report, many issues are discussed in /ooc and I just remember it needs to be done.

I think I have been running servers for around 4 years now, it takes a lot of commitment and I think most have no idea what they are getting into. Sure you can ignore bug request from your players, but it is like the broken window philosophy.

So I am just agreeing with Image here, it is how much you want to put into it.

[AdrianD]

From a personal standpoint:

I'm not interested in running a public server. I know enough from being around here a while to understand it would take more than just me.

I'm focused on learning about all the processes involved. I believe I could contribute to a team in some way. Making a day-in, day-out commitment to one for an undefined period of time is something I cannot do. I would rather spend the time learning new things than doing the same thing over and over.

EDIT: To clarify, a team running a server and a commitment resembling a job

This does not mean I would not contribute to a goal which some could benefit from which includes doing the same thing over and over. There is a distinction.