New loot system - Page 3

werebat · #1 09-21-2012, 08:41 AM

Currently I have every item in the database (except epics) capable of dropping at a 2% chance for all mobs and it works great. I have not updated yet so I am curious what changes I will need to make in my script. It does look promising though. I plan on updating when the newest db is available.

**cavedude** · #2 09-21-2012, 10:51 PM

I'm not going to be around much for the next 2 or so weeks, but I plan on taking a look at re-introducing probability with its usage being optional sometime after then in October. It'll also be best to hold off on feedback about the system until then as well. It'll give everybody a chance to actually use it, and honestly anything said during that time will be lost as I won't be able to keep up with the forums.

revloc02c · #3 10-27-2012, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cavedude

I'm not going to be around much for the next 2 or so weeks, but I plan on taking a look at re-introducing probability with its usage being optional sometime after then in October.

I see pros and cons of both the new system and the old system. I am wondering if you can just implement both by using the probability column as the determining factor:
If probability = 0 use the new system
If probability != 0 use the old system

Just a thought.

(Except the old system would be even cooler if the new columns Mindrop and Droplimit, and minLVL and maxLVL were included in it.)

ChaosSlayerZ · #4 09-22-2012, 12:26 AM

Thank you for your consideration Cavedude.
I would not be stirring things up about it, if I would not have genuinely believe that we are stand to loose a helpful feature here.

sorvani · #5 09-22-2012, 12:33 AM

adding it back in as a server rule would be good then it can be enabled or not by custom content providers like many other features.

Traul · #6 10-04-2012, 06:42 PM

Came in to post exactly what ChaosSlayerz did, particularly his ADDITION post. This change has made things much more difficult for me.

Couldn't we simply re-add the probability on individual loottables and have it default to 100 when creating a new one?

**Akkadius** · #7 10-05-2012, 01:12 AM

I can say that I've got loot dumped for all expansions, I just need to refine it and comb through it with Cavedude before finalization.

werebat · #8 10-07-2012, 04:42 PM

I am using the new loot system with the defiant armor sql I created. I have chance at 2, mindrop at 0 and droplimit at 1 since I would like a rare drop rate wit no more than one item. But the items are dropping at an incredibly rate. I had 4 pieces drop off of 6 kills. Not sure if I have something set up wrong or if the code needs to be fixed. Under the old system the rates were pretty accurate.

sorvani · #9 10-07-2012, 06:31 PM

New system works fine on my test server and I is live on PEQ also. Post your SQL.

werebat · #10 10-12-2012, 02:00 PM

I think I figured it out. It has to do with the number of items in the lootdrop. I had 30 items at a chance of 2. So when a kill happens, it was rolling for all 30 items at a 2% chance. Computers do not have a true random like a dice roll, instead it uses an algorithm to simulate the random numbers. So a 2% chance on 30 rolls would mean that 60% of the time you were likely to get a drop. Off 10 kills that is 6 drops which is about what was happening. So I changed the chance to 0.5 and now it is about 1 out of every 6 drops. So it appears your chance should be (desired % drop / # items in drop) to drop properly. I am not sure how low the chance can be set, but if you have a very large number of items in your drop, then it may not be feasible depending on limits. At least thats how its working for me. The old way with probabilty worked fine since there was only one roll made against it. The new system has its merits too so its just a matter of figuring out how to make it work for your purposes. One suggestion would be to randomize the seed before each roll. I may try this when I get a chance but for now the above step seems to working.

thepoetwarrior · #11 11-28-2012, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by werebat

I think I figured it out. It has to do with the number of items in the lootdrop. I had 30 items at a chance of 2. So when a kill happens, it was rolling for all 30 items at a 2% chance. Computers do not have a true random like a dice roll, instead it uses an algorithm to simulate the random numbers. So a 2% chance on 30 rolls would mean that 60% of the time you were likely to get a drop. Off 10 kills that is 6 drops which is about what was happening. So I changed the chance to 0.5 and now it is about 1 out of every 6 drops. So it appears your chance should be (desired % drop / # items in drop) to drop properly. I am not sure how low the chance can be set, but if you have a very large number of items in your drop, then it may not be feasible depending on limits. At least thats how its working for me. The old way with probabilty worked fine since there was only one roll made against it. The new system has its merits too so its just a matter of figuring out how to make it work for your purposes. One suggestion would be to randomize the seed before each roll. I may try this when I get a chance but for now the above step seems to working.

I'm having the same problem with something like a 2% chance for 1 of 30 items in list to drop is now having 60% chance of dropping an item. How can this be fixed?

**cavedude** · #12 11-28-2012, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thepoetwarrior

I'm having the same problem with something like a 2% chance for 1 of 30 items in list to drop is now having 60% chance of dropping an item. How can this be fixed?

There is nothing to "fix." If you have 30 items with 2% chance that each will drop, then you have a 60% chance that at least 1 will drop (30*2.) That's basic mathematical probability and how our loot system should have worked from the beginning. But, I'm not going to get into that rant.

Now, to change it to behavior like you need it to you have 2 ways.

First, probability (which I almost considered changing the name to probability_modifier because that is what it really is) is back, so you can set that to control the total drop rate of the group of items.

Next, you can lower the chance of the items. (Remember, the new system now accepts floats so you can have chances below 1%.) This basically is just the drawn out way of doing the above. But from a mathematical standpoint, it is the correct way of doing so.

ChaosSlayerZ · #13 10-12-2012, 05:35 PM

that's exactly the problem with new system
you still have to pre-calc all the chance like in old system and then manually convert it to the new system.

For example if in old system you had a 3% chance to drop SOMETHING out of a list of say 25 items (4% per item) - you just set the probability to 3%, and fill out the item table with even chance per item adding up to 100%.

in new system you now have multiply all 4% by 3%, and set each item to 0.12% for each item. Ton of headache for no gain, not to mention loss of functionality.

Elysius · #14 10-12-2012, 05:45 PM

Cavedude you're the man but can we please change this back to the old way? I've stopped working on my server because the amount of work having to make a separate loottable for almost every single NPC is pretty daunting. :(

ChaosSlayerZ · #15 10-27-2012, 12:25 PM

IMHO the only problem with old system was uneven RND.

The problem with new system beyond the screw up of loot table design user-friendly interface, is a loss of a significant feature such as utilization of a single loot entry in potential scenarios and variations.

If probability just added on top the new system I am not sure how this will work with each item on the list rolling by itself. Since new list is designed with no probability in mind. But I suppose this can be fixed with setting drop limit.

Again, IMHO simply keeping the old system (+fixing the RND number generation) AND adding the new features like Mindrop is the best way to go.