open beta testing for classic legit pve

[clericgildina]

Hey thanks for all of your concerns while I am a developer I can't make any final decisions on things like translocators but I can almost guarantee you that there will not be any type of service with regards to teleportation. Travel time in old world really isn't a huge deal as the map is not THAT huge, and there will be druids around I am sure of it. Nexus, PoK etc really ruined an important part of EQ. It kind of took away part of that bartering and service part of the game.

Boats are something that have been looked at and while there has been things that have been partially working, I don't think there has been a definitive fix. At this time there is translocators that will take you from dock to dock but the boats are not working at this time I don't believe (although Xzerion and Aeolwind were working on it a few weeks ago but I am not sure exactly how far they got on it).

The team really strives for this to be a classic experience and we don't want any part of the game to be "easier" for the sake of convenience. Putting a self teleportation system into the game would just be damaging I think for the community.

Other points of debate that have been brought up have included multi-boxing and soulbinders. I don't want to comment too much on those points as nothing has been set in stone but those two issues bring up concerns of community. Soulbinders may have to stay just for the sake that you won't see casters sitting around in cities waiting to bind people so they may be a necessary evil.

Boxing has been a really touchy issue on both sides. We have had people say they will downright not play on Project 1999 if boxing is not allowed, but at the same time we have been able to down huge raid targets with a small number of people due to multi-boxing. So I am sure once we are ready to launch there will be a list of rules/concerns involving some of these issues.

Thanks again for bringing up these issues and I hope I did ok to address them.

[Conifer]

I hope to be able to possibly jump on this weekend and check things out.

I hope I didn't ruffle any feathers or annoy anyone by posting that transport idea. I just threw the druid/wizard transport idea out there because it popped in my head as I was reading through this thread. It was one of those ideas that if a compromise had to be made, it sounded better than either #zone or PoK. I usually play a druid as a main, so transportation is usually not an issue for me anyway.

I remember how it was before the PoK was around with the constant whispers and requests for a teleport. I usually had no problem with going and getting someone if I wasn't busy or in a good group. Then again, I do remember quite a few occasions being cussed out and called about every name under the sun (by random people I'd never even met) for not dropping whatever I was doing and teleporting halfway across the world to pick them up and take them to where they wanted to go. It seems like those guys were also the types that would always say something like, "Paying well!" or "I'll make it worth your time!" only to have them end up /rude gesturing you and run off without so much as a thanks; let alone a copper for your time. Ah, the good old days.

But on the other hand, I also made a lot of good friends by teleporting people around. I also got invited into a lot of groups as a result of taking the time to teleport a few people. The cash supplement wasn't bad either. I actually got my first pair of Golden Efreeti Boots from money I made teleporting people around. I never was lucky with getting Djarn to drop them when I was there.

I can see the point of soulbinders being almost a requirement. I remember there used to be people who it seems only sat at the West Freeport gate or at the main lift in Kelethin and bound people all day and night for tips. It was the low level casters way of getting cash for spells and equipment. It worked pretty good for a new game with a large population and only the original three continents, but once Kunark launched it got a little tougher to find someone to bind you. Enter Velious, and getting a bind could be a major hassle if it wasn't prime time.

As far as multi-boxing goes, I guess some people love it, and others hate it. I would most likely single-box anyway so whatever is decided there wouldn't bother me any.

Hmmm...my P.S. statement didn't post correctly earlier. What I was going to say was that if the boats worked correctly, I would definitely prefer riding those as opposed to using those translocators. But I bet they are definitely a challenge to get working, considering Sony didn't ever bother to fix them.


Good luck,
Conifer

[Traul]

Originally Posted by clericgildina

The team really strives for this to be a classic experience and we don't want any part of the game to be "easier" for the sake of convenience. Putting a self teleportation system into the game would just be damaging I think for the community.

I hope you guys reconsider. It's not necessarily for convenience, but rather to give players the gameplay opportunities they had in classic. Be realistic, the server population will (and this is generous) cap around 100 at peak times. 100 players spread all across Norrath, spanning 50 levels. The fact is unless you want to force people to travel ~1 hour every time they want to group up with people (especially at low-mid levels), some form of reasonable transportation should be implemented.

Conifer's idea doesn't make the game any less legit, it just offers people the same grouping opportunities they would have had in classic.

Originally Posted by sasaluge

Join Date: Aug 2004

older than all of ur accounts i see.. nuff said

And your posts are still just as useless as they were back then.

[wolfwalkereci]

Sounds like an interesting server. Already casually playing on a couple servers and i'll be sure to check this one out.
From what I have seen on the servers forums its shaping up nice.
Already picked up a couple good ideas off reading the posts by them selfs.
Keep up the good work.

[sasaluge]

Join Date: Aug 2004

older than all of ur accounts i see.. nuff said

[wolfwalkereci]

Originally Posted by sasaluge

Join Date: Aug 2004

older than all of ur accounts i see.. nuff said

Hi retard I think the short bus left you behind again.

[pfyon]

You could include the peqzone command (or a variation of it) and make it give you rez sickness for 10 mins when you use it.

The problem with allowing a teleport command/ability is the intermediate zones that no one cares about aren't used. Solution: make them useful (probably not possible if you're just recreating classic).

You could also make a custom zone command/item that you could only use every x minutes and will only teleport you a maximum number of zones away. This would make the player think when to use it (to avoid kithicor at night for example). If it were an item, you'd force players to have to run to their corpses still.

[clericgildina]

Lots of posts and I will do the best I can to try and provide answers and/or reasoning to some of these questions but I will definitely point Nilbog to this thread to add anything I may have missed.

Originally Posted by Conifer

I hope to be able to possibly jump on this weekend and check things out.

I hope I didn't ruffle any feathers or annoy anyone by posting that transport idea. I just threw the druid/wizard transport idea out there because it popped in my head as I was reading through this thread. It was one of those ideas that if a compromise had to be made, it sounded better than either #zone or PoK. I usually play a druid as a main, so transportation is usually not an issue for me anyway.

I remember how it was before the PoK was around with the constant whispers and requests for a teleport. I usually had no problem with going and getting someone if I wasn't busy or in a good group. Then again, I do remember quite a few occasions being cussed out and called about every name under the sun (by random people I'd never even met) for not dropping whatever I was doing and teleporting halfway across the world to pick them up and take them to where they wanted to go. It seems like those guys were also the types that would always say something like, "Paying well!" or "I'll make it worth your time!" only to have them end up /rude gesturing you and run off without so much as a thanks; let alone a copper for your time. Ah, the good old days.

But on the other hand, I also made a lot of good friends by teleporting people around. I also got invited into a lot of groups as a result of taking the time to teleport a few people. The cash supplement wasn't bad either. I actually got my first pair of Golden Efreeti Boots from money I made teleporting people around. I never was lucky with getting Djarn to drop them when I was there.

I can see the point of soulbinders being almost a requirement. I remember there used to be people who it seems only sat at the West Freeport gate or at the main lift in Kelethin and bound people all day and night for tips. It was the low level casters way of getting cash for spells and equipment. It worked pretty good for a new game with a large population and only the original three continents, but once Kunark launched it got a little tougher to find someone to bind you. Enter Velious, and getting a bind could be a major hassle if it wasn't prime time.

As far as multi-boxing goes, I guess some people love it, and others hate it. I would most likely single-box anyway so whatever is decided there wouldn't bother me any.

Hmmm...my P.S. statement didn't post correctly earlier. What I was going to say was that if the boats worked correctly, I would definitely prefer riding those as opposed to using those translocators. But I bet they are definitely a challenge to get working, considering Sony didn't ever bother to fix them.


Good luck,
Conifer

No ruffling of feathers, we are a pretty thick-skinned bunch and handle things in a pretty civilized manner. This project is firmly planted as classic, and while some people value convenience, everyone on this project values accuracy. Giving people the ability to go wherever they wish at any time really takes away from not only your starting locale, but also your racial penalties.

Look at it like this: In classic if you were a Troll or Ogre, you had no safe haven on Faydwer. You were hated by every race and you would have no where to sell or bank. If we had translocaters in place, a troll could hunt in Mistmoore and then leave the continent via a translocator instantly, selling their loot and banking all their cash. They really suffer no penalty for choosing their race and they would have never had to encounter an enemy race from that continent. Where in reality that Troll in classic would have had to either pay for a teleport from a druid/wizard to get back to Grobb or take the boat back through all the dwarves.

I understand where people are coming from with regards to wanting some form of teleportation service. I just honestly can't see it coming to fruition on this server. I don't think it will be the type of thing that will keep people from playing on the server. Just something that kind of annoys people, much like many aspects of classic did.

Originally Posted by Traul

I hope you guys reconsider. It's not necessarily for convenience, but rather to give players the gameplay opportunities they had in classic. Be realistic, the server population will (and this is generous) cap around 100 at peak times. 100 players spread all across Norrath, spanning 50 levels. The fact is unless you want to force people to travel ~1 hour every time they want to group up with people (especially at low-mid levels), some form of reasonable transportation should be implemented.

Conifer's idea doesn't make the game any less legit, it just offers people the same grouping opportunities they would have had in classic.

Like I said, I understand your guys' concern and I understand that population is going to be a large factor for this server. Issues of things like Soulbinders, Translocators and Multi-Boxing all firmly rely on population. Who knows, maybe there is not enough people that want to put themselves through the grind of a true classic experience and this will have to be addressed. But it will be addressed at that time.

The thing is, everyone will be in the same situation as you. It isn't like everyone on the server will be in Crushbone and you are the only person in Blackburrow. Everyone will try to stick close to their locale, much like you did on Live. If you start in Freeport, then you will be doing NRO and Oasis. If you start in Qeynos you will be doing Blackburrow and the Karanas.

Originally Posted by pfyon

You could include the peqzone command (or a variation of it) and make it give you rez sickness for 10 mins when you use it.

The problem with allowing a teleport command/ability is the intermediate zones that no one cares about aren't used. Solution: make them useful (probably not possible if you're just recreating classic).

You could also make a custom zone command/item that you could only use every x minutes and will only teleport you a maximum number of zones away. This would make the player think when to use it (to avoid kithicor at night for example). If it were an item, you'd force players to have to run to their corpses still.

I can guarantee you that #zone will not be given to people on the server. It is available for the beta, but that will be the extent of it. Not even a variation of #zone will be permitted. I also can't foresee any item teleportation being permitted either.

There will be no "custom" zones. Although there are a lot of zones that are basically custom since they had to be built from scratch. So I guess you can consider that to be a form of a custom zone.


Like I said I will point Nilbog towards this thread and he can hopefully clear up any questions I may not have handled properly.

[pfyon]

Originally Posted by clericgildina

I can guarantee you that #zone will not be given to people on the server. It is available for the beta, but that will be the extent of it. Not even a variation of #zone will be permitted. I also can't foresee any item teleportation being permitted either.

There will be no "custom" zones. Although there are a lot of zones that are basically custom since they had to be built from scratch. So I guess you can consider that to be a form of a custom zone.

Just keep in mind that a server has to be fun to attract people. If people enjoy spending hours travelling between locations, you're good to go. Same goes for people staying in one area of the world.

I can see local grouping being successful if you were looking at population sizes of like 500 or more, but as a previous poster pointed out, you're more likely to see 50-100 people at peak periods (spread over 50 levels). You might also find the server's player base is more weighted towards teleporting classes.

Of course, if it works, you're more likely to have close-knit groups and guilds.

Again, I don't want to dissuade you from your idea for this server. I just don't want to see so much work go to waste if the server doesn't work out well.

[Dibalamin]

Of course, if it works, you're more likely to have close-knit groups and guilds.

This is the target. A lot of what EQ was was the community. We have quite a bit of RL friends that are going to be on the server, probably in the neighborhood of 20+. POK and to a very small extent, Nexus is what siren'd the swansong of EQ for me. It removed the inter-reliance of players on each other: MGB Buffs, instant travel, etc. EQ classes were balanced on the needs & detriments of other classes. Once those were removed EQ became much less interactive and more like something else entirely.

[Traul]

Originally Posted by Dibalamin

This is the target. A lot of what EQ was was the community. We have quite a bit of RL friends that are going to be on the server, probably in the neighborhood of 20+. POK and to a very small extent, Nexus is what siren'd the swansong of EQ for me. It removed the inter-reliance of players on each other: MGB Buffs, instant travel, etc. EQ classes were balanced on the needs & detriments of other classes. Once those were removed EQ became much less interactive and more like something else entirely.

I just don't understand why you would run the high chance of turning off everybody except the 'absolute hardcore classic players' over what could be a small compromise. We're not talking about enabling PoK, but just putting pay-to-use teleporters at each spire. Then hey, if the population becomes large enough, they can always be removed.

You guys are aiming for classic, but classic didn't have server populations of <100. Classic wasn't designed for such low populations. You've got to make minor adjustments to compensate for this or else gameplay will suffer greatly.

[sasaluge]

a witty saying proves nothing
-voltaire

**UPDATE** server still doomed for failure

[nilbog]

Nilbog was the name of the troll city in Troll 2..

Are you attracted to my name or my server, sasaluge?

[Traul]

Originally Posted by sasaluge

a witty saying proves nothing
-voltaire

**UPDATE** server still doomed for failure

I want to call you a retard, but even the most severely autistic kid could figure out how to make a worthwhile post after 5 years.

Sorry about your brain bro

[pfyon]

Don't feed the trolls.