New Years resolutions anyone?

[John Adams]

Zengez, let me analyze your post, because it has many great points in it that I totally disagree with.

Originally Posted by Zengez

I'd say release a mangled database with everything you have right now in it. Not just the 'fixed' code and the 'perfect spawns' and the 'complete expansions' just release everything. Let the spawns be wrong, in the wrong spots, patrolling wrong, have the wrong stats/no loot/no faction or whatever.

Sorry Zen, I disagree with this idea 100%. There are probably hundreds of databases just like this out there already... and do you know how much "feedback" we get? Barely any. Ask Angelox - this is his thread for that very reason. If people cared to do so, they would have contributed with PEQ-RC1, fixing OG -> Luclin content. And the PEQ staff is not 100 guys - it's roughly 3, who don't get paid to do this anymore than we do, but carry the great burden of maintaining a set philosophy. Start adding Joe Schmoe's data on a whim, you are right back to random inconsistent data with no one to test and validate, because no one will. No matter how great an idea it seems.

Originally Posted by Zengez

That was the PEQ team can skim the forums time to time and pull out the actual intelligent fixes that other people did in their spare time, and ignore the post about inserting cazic thule into ecommons because 'it'd be fun!'.

This is what we do now, today, without changing a thing. People post bugs, post fixed code, and post wishlist items they'd like to see. The "powers that be" pick those items that are intelligible, are well conceived, and will benefit the entire community, and incorporate those fixes into the next build. How is what you're asking for any different?

Originally Posted by Zengez

I know I'd be fine with that, and it'd give me something to work with instead of wishing i had tools to spawn zones and then finding out that they are already spawned when i'm half way through.

This is about all I agree with. If there is one man alive on this planet earth that knows how to modify the collector/extractor/builder, I implore - beg - grovel (but I won't send cash) him to teach someone else how to do it. I know it's difficult, or it would be done on a whim. But it's not brain surgery. Even I could learn how to walk packets and look for strings. Yeah it's more than that, but the point being, we strongly require a knowledge transfer in this area. PEQ may be rumbling around Luclin, but random_admin01 may wish to work on GoD - and HIS data will be golden, not hand spawned or something the core guys just don't trust.

Originally Posted by Zengez

This isn't a rant, it's just frustrating because it's the exact same thing i've been saying since i joined the project some 2+ years ago, you want to control the official database from the newbins, fine, but give us something to work with so we can do exactly that, work with it. if you give us nothing then say prove yourself by finding minute flaws in the zones we've never even been in and/or code in the emu itself, you lose alot of people that might be good at database work that just simply didn't play those certain zones in eq.

Dude. This is sooo a rant. You have that power __right now__ to find flaws in the database and submit them to PEQ Database Bugs for integration. I really do not see what you are asking for, for 2+ years... (except the tools part heh)

Originally Posted by Zengez

Having a pretty craptacular day

Please don't take my quoting only you as a direct attack towards only you. I do sympathize with what you're saying, but I sincerely feel we have everything you are looking for right this moment, only you want a database.sql file with todays date on it. And I just don't see how that's any different than working with the latest release. Same goes for the code.

I'm done. Sorry if I tweaked any nipples.

[mwmdragon]

Ok, here goes.

Angelox, Cavedude, PEQ = Choice... but

I think we should conglomerate the 3 databases. And this is how I suggest it gets done (Read the word "Suggest" a few times to make sure you saw it there :P


1. Start with a blank Database (All the base tables ect)

2. Start with one Table and use a nice viewer like MySQL Front to compare the info... copy or export the info needed from each database and compile it into a sql file. Continue this until you have gone threw every table. It may take a long time but if you get different person to do a different table then it will go faster.

3. After this is done source all the .sql files you have into the clean database.

4. Now setup a forum that has a public area and a private area. Public so everyone can submit fixes. Private so you can copy and paste fix code from the poublic area as needed.

The Forums must be set up with an area for every table in the database so that posts go into the forum according to the table the public person is offering the code to edit.

5. Make one date per month..say the 15th. That a new verion of the database is released that way the people doing the editing have 30 days to add or change whatever they want from the forums or privately inbetween the releases. After a edit is made from the public forums message you just delete that message that way the forums stay clean.

6. Make it known to people joining the forums that this isn't a place of discussion but a place of submission for work doen on the Master Database.



I REALLY wish I had time to do Database work again :( Starting my own company has really killed my fun time, but filled my pockets with more than lint.

I know Angelox and cavedude are really the only major player in the database are right now (cavedude now holds PEQ or so i believe) so I guess it is really an idea for them to mull over.

If you need a fast host for files and forums let me know I've got a pro server up and running that I have complete controll over >

[Zengez]

Originally Posted by John Adams

A Lot of Stuff

I agree with you 100% with how you said that John Adams, but the problem is that you actually took my points out of context. You see, It's true that the PEQ team skims the forums for updates, which is exactly why I suggested what I did... you're absolutely right that isn't asking for something new.

However what I Was asking for was for the complete database to be released so that there was absolutely plenty to work on and then I guaruntee you dozens of posts will be made from all over by many different members on updates for all sorts of updates throughout the entire 'mangled' area of the database. Sure there won't be any rhymn or reason to the updates, you'll have single mobs being fixed in dozens of zones at once and no one zone will be completed any time soon that way, but the database as a whole will have 10+ members making active and intelligent contributions instead of the 3 members we have currently running PEQ.

Now don't get me wrong, we will have likely dozens and dozens of posts about how to fix things, or things that are off, etc etc, and most of them will, frankly, be crap. Which is why I suggest that PEQ team skims the forums for intelligent updates and picks them out of the mess and puts them in.

Originally Posted by cavedude

"There are probably hundreds of databases just like this out there already... and do you know how much "feedback" we get? Barely any."

(Randomly interjected so hopefully that doesn't break the flow of the writing)

This I think is more that hte 'hundreds of databases' are entirely pet projects that are private databases or not 'official works' of the emulator project... PEQ is 'THE' emulator database... If this were posted and asked for updates alot more people would try to help I'd bet, because they don't feel like they are trying to just help out some random person with one thing that isn't for the community but just for them... In contrast the PEQ database is assumed to be the community's database and thus people would know their work is for the betterment of everyone, not just the betterment of one particular person or server.

Now, as a tangent, to go to CaveDudes comment on being flooded with random support requests and complaints by newbins that complain that xx zone way out in expansion land that isn't complete is 'messed up and I fall for 10k damage when I hit a mob!' or some such. To this I'd recommend two things,

1: Make a sticky post/giant banner/ some other thing that says that these zones aren't supported and shouldn't be played unless you are trying to fix them.

2: Now, for all those true newbins that never read that stuff and post why EQ doesn't work after patching just like they read somewhere, get another person into the PEQ team whose sole job it is to take in those complaints, sift through them and get what is good and what isn't, reply to them, etc... Basically a liason between the PEQ staff and the other people, because honestly that is exactly what it feels like... PEQ team is 'them' and the rest is 'us' and we have no idea what is or is not going on in the world of database development... If we had an intermediary it would be good for many different reasons, for example we'd have someone who would be very active in replying to our questions about whatever with the database, and potentially more importantly, whomever currently does this (I believe that would be you Cavedude) would be able to do the work on PEQ and not have to hassle with the crazies, and/or spend all yer time essentially doing customer support.
Everyone's happy.

(EDIT:: Interjection, I dont mean it to seem like we have no voice, because I know we can post updates and suggestios and bug reports, my point was we don't know if you are actually doing anything about what we say or not because we have no feedback on our feedback that I've seen unless you're one of the few that gets a line about how they contributed in a release note somewhere or in a random forum somewhere, but those are fairly rare in the grand scheme of things)

Now I don't know if anyone 'wants' that responsibility, but thats what makes sense to me.

Also, to the other part you mentioned John; What I've been asking for all this time is an actually full release of 'any' database rather than withholding updates that aren't quite 'finished' yet until the 3 guys are done working on them, it seems such a waste to me to see people that could be doing real work on the spawns and loot and factions and whatnot of a database instead going back and replacing missing doors in zone xyz that nobody really needs in the first place... Get all the essential stuff in, then worry about doors and who is selling what (no offense intended to those that did these, it's still more than alot of other people, and I have nothing but respect to anyone that does any work on the database).

Recap::

So essentially All I was asking for was to have a full release of everything PEQ has right now, including allt he innacurate and messed up zones for 'most of the zones our client supports' as per Cavedude, and I was merely listing all the ways that would help us with what we were already doing, I wasn't saying that people don't scan the forums for updates, or that people don't have the ability to post fixes and updates, merely all this would be far far better if we actually had stuff to work with, rather than going over the already finely tuned stuff that PEQ releases... they seem to 'make sure we're happy with it before we release it' then complain that we don't post enough fixes to it... Just seems kind of backwards to me, if you want people to help you fix it, release it when it still needs serious work, otherwise only the very very select few with mastery of; the database, hardcoding, and everquest the game, will be able to fix anything.