Classic Spell Effects Do Not Come Out of Hands

[Tabidzukare]

Hi Aaron,

It's interesting that you have that sort of result with the bard songs.. Perhaps there is more in depth testing to be done regarding this... because for me (I can't remember what config) the bard songs were the *only* thing that worked.. I have a level 28 Bard on my own ML server, and the effects for the songs I use work fine... Melodic Binding, Selos, Bruscos Bellow / Dissonance line as well as the attack lines. I'll try out the healing line and report back what's going on there later today (I should have time).

The ice comet, comment is interesting is also. We need to find out more external links that control origins for spells or at least where those graphics are controlled!!

Keep up your work everyone, either we'll crack this issue or we'll learn enough to know it's out of our hands (legally).

[trevius]

Tabidzukare,

From what you reported from your testing, it now sounds to me like the paths.ini file may be used for the client to reference for certain things. I haven't looked at the file yet, but if there are actual offsets in there, it may be that this file is where it tells the client where to look in memory when doing some actions. If so, and if this is where the hand info originally came from, then maybe it is still in memory somewhere, but wasn't updated in this file because they don't use it like that anymore. And, if that is true, then if you can figure out which one is to set the hand location, then it may still be possible to set the correct offset in that file so that it points to the right place in memory. But, that also assumes that the memory for hands is still being set at all. Considering how lazy SOE is about removing old unused code and files, it is fairly possible that this could be done with the right expertise.

That idea is assuming alot of stuff that I don't easily have a way to check, but it is something to maybe consider. It would take someone with more offset knowledge than myself to have any clue where to find this info in memory, though. Since this is purely speculation at this point, I don't want you to get too hung up on it, but figured it would be worth mentioning.

Also, the .eff files are effect files and they probably contain multiple effects within each file. You can probably think of them like a .zip file with a bunch of sound and graphic files in them. I don't know that for sure, but that is essentially what the .S3D and .EQG files are.

[Tabidzukare]

Trevius!

Thanks so much again for taking the time to share your insight into this issue. I will certainly begin testing now on altering data within the paths.ini file for original spells and whether or not it has an effect. I won't have time perhaps for a day or so with work and what not to do proper testing.

I'm putting attention out to others interested in the results of these tests but who have been as of yet... un-interested in helping to produce them to help me out a bit. I have only a slow 8 year old laptop I do work on outside of work and while I can go in and test spell offsets (by posting at a 0 0 0 mark and watching for a difference) by myself, after about 3 log outs from my own ML server my machine starts begging for mercy and I have to shut down for a few minutes. In addition the more minds working on this problem the faster it will get resolved.

Again thanks for your helpful information I have several ideas from it and only wish I could test and post results more quickly. Whether or not 'victory' over this problem is at hand or not knowledge certainly is and one way or the other we can at least put it to rest definitively. (This of course is assuming we will stick to 'legal' means of affecting this ability to display spells properly i.e. not altering the client itself. Which I for one plan on sticking to (legality that is..))

Kindest Regards ~~

[trevius]

LOL, when you said offsets, I was thinking of the Memory kind, which is not the case in the path.ini file. I finally checked out the file and after looking at it and the path.tga file in the same directory, it appears that it is only used for the "find NPC or Player" path thing. The glowing trail that you see that leads you to something you have selected to find. I don't think that should have anything to do with the hands thing. So, you can probably ignore that file.

[Tabidzukare]

Wow, that's great to know as that will save a ton of time. The next task however is finding out whether or not the hands animation is stored separately of the bursting effects. I'm thinking it has to be but the two might be stored within the .eff file. I'll look into it more in depth but does anyone know off-hand whether or not there is a way to open or manipulate the .eff files themselves?? Also, I'll try manipulating that paths.ini file regardless and seeing whether or not altering it changes anything about that line for the Finder. Hehe, it's so interesting to see where all the little pieces of the game come from. Thanks again for that information Trevius.

Kindest Regards~

[aaron1231]

No one has figured anything out? I cant program, so I cant personally work on it, but I would love for it to be fixed? Make sure you check out the Bard song effects when you are doing testing..

Tabidzukare, I deleted the normal files, at first just the .eff and .edd files I moved out. Then when I saw it did not work I tried to move out the geequip etc. etc. So, I got all the spells to work like they would for anyone else, on my shaman and other characters. But My bard only had the Selo/mez orb style effect that worked. No hands still on my shaman.. But I know thats still an issue.

Thanks

[Tabidzukare]

Hey there,

Well, I'm on another block of interest for the time being with extracting EQ's models and zones for other uses so I've taken a rest from this issue. However, I did want to comment on the bard songs.. Here are some photos of my bard on my ML server using things like haste/HoT, I have more screen just not on that flickr page atm. But the fire based DoT's show up properly, of course Selo's works fine as do the mez's. I am currently running on a goofy setup of files because I did all those tests.. However if we can get some other people using the 'classic spell graphics' to do a quick test for you with a bard, we can start narrowing down your particular problem with the songs.

As you can see here, they're working fine on my current setup (Interestingly Selo's sprays from the bum like ice comet.. definitely hilarious though sad at the same time..). Can anyone else verify their functionality with just a basic setup of the removed spellsnew.eff/.edd files??

And a final mention: we will solve this problem either in the fashion we want to (correcting the hand position) or find out it is out of the legal realm of our influence. I can't program (not really) either, however you CAN dig into the EQ directory and start messing things up and trying to get results, that's how it all starts my friend. Hang in there with the bard spells issue, we'll get it solved for you too.

Kindest Regards~~

[wsbsteven]

Old spell effects work if you use a client from the gates of discord era or older. The Shards of Dalaya server has working old spell graphics if you delete the edd/eff files and nothing more. I'm pretty sure they use a much older version of eqemu though.

Maybe some investigation into a Shards of Dalaya install would help your cause?

[Tabidzukare]

Hi Steven,

Thanks so much for your information. I checked out the site and the first mention I'll give is to how professional it looks! What a great project and thanks for sharing it. I looked at what files they require to play, lo-and-behold they utilize a patcher. I didn't want to patch myself to find out but luckily they did have a manual download for the files.

They are using a hacked PoP client, so i'm assuming they're using the 3.8-4.3 era EQEmu. I could be totally wrong but when I downloaded the patch they had older Dx8.dll's eqmain.dll and an eqgame.exe. When I loaded up the game to the connection point it was an old PoP login screen. Beautiful to see though I didn't patch the rest of the files or register with them to test their spell graphics.

Can you post a screenshot with the old hand graphics working??

Now that that's covered I'll go ahead and cover some other general to ideas I've had regarding this issue as well as some general inquiries in case anyone knows, I'll be on holiday for about a week so I won't have time to test things myself and in preparation for the holiday have been too busy on other projects to do much save for some quest work:

Ideas:

• Spell editing: I downloaded two versions of a spell editing program, one was WindCatchers spell editing front-end, the other's from GeorgeS's site is Ailia's spell editor. I noticed that there are two entries for spell effects a new number and an old number. I wonder if deleting the 'new' entries and putting an appropriate 'old' number in will do anything positive? This one feels like scratching at a wall, but hey what can you do?

• EQInside SDK: I've heard whispers of this SDK in posts in various archives. But apparently it was a .dll or set of tools that facilitated open the various file type archives of EQ. If we can get INTO the .eff's and see what's been changed perhaps we can patch original spells.eff to make it sync properly with the client (if it is indeed 'hard' coded). Has there been anyone that anyone knows of to have opened or patched .eff's? I'm learning OpenGL now in hopes that I might one day be able to make my own solutions but with all the darn math involved it's going to be almost a year or more before I get to any sort of developmental level with it. If we could get our hands on this SDK it could possibly give us a set of tools to begin extraction of those archives and modding them.

• General Tests: The first idea I had is just to check the ability to alter at least the Z positions of the hand graphics by changing races and casting spells and seeing if the hand particles change height.. Another 'general knowledge' answer I don't have and haven't looked into is, do the new spell graphics make use of hand particles or are they centered around the body?

I think the most important element here and now is to be able to bust open or view the spell graphics themselves. I had thought that Ailia's editor had this feature but I've not been able to get it to do that. Without having access to at least open and view those archives I think we have very little in the way of problem solving tools at this point. I still have other 'throw myself against a wall' kind of ideas but we need more input than just my own efforts to try to solve this problem. I've got an extremely narrow range of knowledge and skills though I'm never lacking in enthusiasm or dedication!

*cough* Sadly in this instance for at least another year that enthusiasm and dedication won't yield any results.

With hope,
and as always,
Kindest Regards~~

[Tabidzukare]

Hi everyone!

I apologize this issue has rested for so long! Indeed I've been busy programming and learning everything I can about programming to affect some greater changes in this community.. Difficult stuff really!!

Consequently I haven't had much time to work on this, however, recently I did make a character on Tallon/Vallon Zek. Guess what.. renaming arena.eqg, nektulos.eqg and lavastorm.eqa to .old + downloading their spells_us.txt file fixed the old spell graphics to launch properly out of the hands.

What is interesting about this is that I did NOT erase my spellsnew files at all! Yet old graphics for buffs, leech effects etc show up now.. This btw is from an absolutely fresh install of Titanium, I just changed what was mentioned above and began to play.

Regardless of where I play (any other server) the old spell graphics stick except for some newer effects which might not be linked to older style graphics internally.
I have not tested:

• • Removing the spellsnew / naming spells.eff
  • Playing with the original spells_us.txt to see the old graphics still work without it
  • Renaming the eqg files back to normal.

This can lead us to two possibilities:

• 1. Spells_us.txt controls the 'problematic elements' of classic spells 'misfiring'
  2. The eqg files somehow factor into spell graphics.

Once we figure out what is really affecting the changes all we need to do is institute those changes and everything should work flawlessly. If it is in fact the spells_us.txt files (I didn't back up the original one from install so I can't see it.. ) then the question arises as to how they edited it.. Not that it matters at this point since it works and the only important thing is saving it or downloading it for use on your own server. Also, if someone has a fresh spells_us.txt, can you open it up in a plain txt editor?? Does it display plain text for you or is it all jumbled crap? The T/V Zek spells_us if all garbage and voodoo while spells_en is plain English.

Either way, the solution is a few steps off, and when I get the time I'll do these myself, in the mean time if some industrious individual decides to try post your results here please!

With success close at hand,
Kindest Regards~~

[steve]

The EQG zone files shouldn't have any effect on the spell graphics. Those are only loaded when you're visiting those particular zones.

You can rule that one out

[nilbog]

Finally figured this out.

You can get the old spell effects by a combination of *not* deleting your spellsnew.eff and .edd files and changing the value of particle effect. (field is labeled as particle effect in spell editor and spellanim in spells_new table.

Once again, a GeorgeS tool has saved my sanity
http://wizardportal.dyndns.org/eqemu/eq.html

The Spell Encyclopedia and media file includes a folder of high quality video avis. The correct spell particles for symbol of pinzarn according to these videos is 86. In the spells_us.txt file, it is particle 10. Watching the videos, you don't see the hand-casting effects because they are instantly being cast. Actually casting the spell with a casting delay looks great.

Changing your db entry and/or spells_us.txt file for the desired particle effect you are looking for + having spellsnew.eff and spellsnew.edd in place = classic spell effects coming out of your hands.

Late, but well worth it.

[nilbog]

Well maybe I posted too soon! After getting to that step, I assumed that would take care of the rest of the issues.

Classically, your spells would change/improve graphically the higher level you were.

Symbols, for example, would start out green, then around 24 the blue effects would be added to it. After 40 (i think? ) it would also include red particle effects and give you the nice tri-color buffs.

The only other issue I have found so far is that the spells don't actually *shoot* out of your hands, they just float from the top of them.

Anyone have further ideas about how particle colors can be level based, or how to effect the velocity/gravity of spell effects?

[Telin]

Has anyone figured out a way to force the titanium client to put together the classic spell effects properly? I have played around a bit on the spell files. I can change particles by changing the names of the .tga or .dds files. The classic spell particles mostly use the .tga files. I don't know how to begin building layers to the spell animations. For example it looks like you can combine spelb1, spelc1, and speld4.tga from the spell effects folder together to recreate the generic buff spells from the hands. And spelb2, spelc3, and speld4.tga for the firework on the target.