Login Power~ - Page 2

Charmy · #1 08-25-2004, 02:20 AM

Hmm this is interesting, first off all LE you still didn't answer my closing question, it was a simple one that really had almost nothing to do with the login source, and that one is why is my password sent in plain text to your login server. I don't see any data encryption in any packets being sent to the login server. other than that atleast you gave me a relativley simple answer which was Shut the fuck up we don't want to deal with it, which is fine.

Mongrel i hope you didn't mean to tell more than you wanted to.

Quote:

If someone had the encrypt/decrypt functions said person could easily write a little sniffer that decodes the passwords from players logging into EQLive.

Wait wait wait, EQLive? no on ever said Anything about the crypto in login, having anything to do with the crypto in eqemulator. So mongerl are you trying to tell me that encryption algorithiums used in the eqemu are the exact same ones used on eqlive?! Well ofcourse they are, they would have to be, hmm thats interesting... I would like to hear a dev just come out and say it, is it that difficult? I mean after all there reallllly isn't much to hide, you are already doing somthing against the rules, so why is it so hard to tell the truth?

Write a little sniffer hmm? Sniffers usually Collect Packets right? Like a PacketCollector? Before anyone quotes me or you jump ahead of yourself there, i never accused anyone of anything, nor would i ever. I am simply pointing out a fact of what mongrel is saying could be taken the wrong way.

Don't get me wrong LE, I know releasing the algorithiums could be a big mistake, the fact remains you have never, up to this point simply come out and say it. And that i do not understand.

Quote:

Another reason for not releasing the login server is make sure that all EQEMu servers are centralized somewhere. If you think of that as "control" then you should really do something about your Big Brother paranoia

Ok mongrel think about what your saying here. When somthing in centralized, that means there has to be someone or somthing that 'controls' it. Believe me mongrel lol I don't have this strange paranoia that is telling me (( Someone Is Watching You )) (( The devs read everything you say!! )) (( Shit! That means they know about the cybering i was doing!)) No i really don't care what the devs do with the information that is sent over their server, if they enjoy my cyber, then all the better, now 3 people get to enjoy it. Its the fact that the info MUST go through them, that makes me question it all. If the algorithiums are going to be y our only defence then that probably means somthing bad would go down if you released them. So what woudl go down LE? Would you get in big trouble? You can answer me in one word answers if you want, as could dooman.

I am not paranoid, i am jewish, if someone wants to centralize my work i want to know why, if i should have access to somthing that i 'legally' should, but do not, i want to know why.

You can say its not under the GPL all you want, the fact remains it is a module of the main project, and should follow the rules. Just tell us why you aren't following the rules, tell us that the information could be used to malevolent ends, But don't just sit there and say, We don't want to, end of topic. becuase it doesn't work that way myfriend, as it was once put.

Quote:

I am not a god fearing man, why should i fear to ask you for the truth I so desire, if I do not fear my own creator?

Hmm. Right now you haven't told me or any of the other public why you can't or won't release it. Right now it just looks as if your a mean little kid trying to keep the worm squished between his fingers becuase he can.

sotonin · #2 08-25-2004, 02:24 AM

Charmy, just give up man. you aren't going to leech the login source off of them. They don't want to give it up, they wrote it and have that right.

waternorth · #3 08-25-2004, 02:33 AM

You're calling everyone a hypocrite today... y'know... I heard something about people calling others what they would least like to be called.

RangerDown · #4 08-25-2004, 02:40 AM

Quote:

If someone had the encrypt/decrypt functions said person could easily write a little sniffer that decodes the passwords from players logging into EQLive.

It's not Emu's job to save the SOE devs from their own stupidity. There are plenty of asymmetric encryption algorithms out there, many that have been out for so long their patents have expired or are about to expire. With an asymmetric algorithm, you can know every single piece of math that algorithm does, but no, you're still not gonna be able to decrypt a piece of traffic going across the wire. If SOE chooses not to take advantage of one of these algorithms, the project need not suffer because of their laziness.

That said, I brought this up before, and was told that minilogin is able to be considered a third party program much like the packetcollector or the other stuff various peeps are making in the Third Party Tools forum, and as such they are not required to give the source. At least that's what I made out of 1 or 2 meaningful sentences of Image's response, before he degenerated into his standard "You're a retard and a poo poo face for bringing this up."

To clarify how the login server works in the whole scheme -- the only time you're talking to the login server is while you're authenticating and getting the server select screen. After you pick one of the servers and connect to it, the logon server plays no further role in your communication.

Wiz · #5 08-25-2004, 02:56 AM

I think we're releasing the new loginserver, anyways, once it's complete.

So then you can pretty much take your conspiracy and club arguments and stuff them.

**Doodman** · #6 08-25-2004, 03:18 AM

First of all, the GPL does not state anything about software distributed under it's license has to be "usable".

It means, that if you are give a binary form of something under the GPL you have the right to the source code comprising it. But all portions of said binary code do not have to be under the GPL.

A perfect example are things like, Cedega (aka WineX) from transgaming. They are based on Wine, an opensource/GPL project. But, their Direct3D implementation on linux that is used in Cedega is -NOT- under the GPL.

World/Zone/EMuSharemem are GPL'd. LoginServer and ChanChannels are not GPL'd. End of story.

If you don't like it, take me to court.

NeroTheDark · #7 08-25-2004, 03:45 AM

I know for me, i am a huge noob when it comes to compliling and all that open source and GPL violation bullsh*t. Many of us just want to play the game to expirence things we mau never get too in EQLive. As with any closed source programs you run the possiblity of putting virus/sniffer like programs on your personal computer. I know, however, that when i program at low levels, even though some of my programs are very smiple, i dont like people looking at my code without my permission. This maybe way off topic, but i like teh idea of everyhting being pre-complied and not having to worry about all that open source jazz.

Cisyouc · #8 08-25-2004, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeroTheDark

but i like teh idea of everyhting being pre-complied and not having to worry about all that open source jazz.

You can't expierence alot of what you can when you edit and compile your own version of EQEMu Source.

melquiades · #9 08-25-2004, 04:04 AM

/rant on
first off, GPL is not bulls*t, it's the guarantee to have the freedom to use software if authors have decided so. Would you use a compiler where the the publisher decides what time schedules you can compile, or use the executable ? Take time to read GPL when you want, and you'll see it's not bullsh*t.
/rant off

What keeps EQEmu contributors (devs or others) together, is the possibility to alter and improve EQ, with material (software and content) at maximum freedom. Else, we would play SOE's. It's faster, easier, better quality, and cheaper.

The in-topic is : do closed source loginservers harm this freedom ?

killspree · #10 08-25-2004, 04:07 AM

No, loginserver does nothing at all for the play experience so it doesn't do any harm having it closed source.

melquiades · #11 08-25-2004, 04:39 AM

Quote:

A connection to the server could not be reached. Please check your internet connection to make sure you are online.

If the problem persists, please check our Network Status and Scheduled Downtines pages for updates.
If the problem persists, please use our Help Link for further assistance

remember that good ol' play experience ? Sry, i can't agree with that.

Darkwaters · #12 08-25-2004, 08:26 AM

Here is a big issue in regards to the minilogin.exe. You publish it as a binary under a SourceForge website that is offered under its own license as only GPL'd. Which means anything you allow on the site at any time past/present that source code is legally attainable by said end-user. Sorry mates but by your publishing a binary under a GPL umbrella'd license you did in fact guarantee that that minilogin.exe file should have had source available.

No need to argue it with me, I been in the business to many years to care about opinion, it is fact though.

Nuff said,
Darkwaters

Darkwaters · #13 08-25-2004, 08:27 AM

EQEmu provides an alternative experience to the live EverQuest(tm) servers. It is currently in development and new features are brought to light every day.

:Gaming Foundry

Development Status: 4 - Beta

Environment: Console (Text Based)

Intended Audience: End Users/Desktop

License: GNU General Public License (GPL)

Natural Language: English

Operating System: Windows 95/98/2000, FreeBSD, Linux

Programming Language: C++

Topic: Games/Entertainment

here it is in black and white to save you the argument.
Darkwaters

Melwin · #14 08-25-2004, 08:36 AM

What's your point? EQEmu is under GLP, yes, and is distributed with source as such.

But the loginserver isn't, so your argument is completely irrelevant.

Darkwaters · #15 08-25-2004, 08:48 AM

Actually the fact that minilogin was available on an only GPL authorized site denotes that minilogin.exe was also under this license or that you blatantly violated such said license agreement.
I did not mention loginserver as such as you currently use. I did however mention minilogin which is still documented as being available even though it is not in the available list of downloads. I have 2 versions personally that I downloaded from SF. It would only be fair that either I under the fact it was available that its source was available or that this "new loginserver" mentioned by Wiz would be made available for others like myself who like Lan-party's. I mean the EQEmu team did offer this feature under GPL at one point and that one point in times source should still be available to the public.
Darkwaters