Winters Roar down indefinitely

[Wiz]

Originally Posted by Woodlife Treestrider

Obviously some people do not understand the point of my post. Sorry for any imperfections in the post, but the point of it was:

Because of the fact that WR was faced with legal problems, WindCatcher suggested that this community as a whole develop a game that has nothing to do with Sony. This would give the developers who want to use their skills without facing legal problems a place to practice.

Sense we (luft, kerosh, a few others, and myself) were planning on doing that, but on a smaller scale do to lack of support, I figured I would give the oppurtunity to anyone interested. I guess you could say I was "advertising" it, but I was in no way trying to use WR's downfall as a footstep for us.

I was actually just referring to "He's so good, he said this guy's work was crap!".

[Hellefire]

Hey Wiz,

What is WR's next step? Is the plan to fight the C'n'D, or just to move on to something else?

Aaron

[Wiz]

Originally Posted by Hellefire

Hey Wiz,

What is WR's next step? Is the plan to fight the C'n'D, or just to move on to something else?

Aaron

http://www.dawntide.net

[Payens]

Could the problem be the name of the server itself, "Winter's Roar"? That's the name of a Shaman spell in EQ Live. See the info here http://www.everquest-online.com/spel...roar-id509.php

Could that be what SOE's action is all about, shutting down WR because it's name comes from content that SOE owns the rights to?

[mrea]

I don't believe that is what this is about. I doubt they own the rights to every individual spell/song name. If you think about it they can't own such things such as "burst of fire" or "lightning" :-P

This is about them being greedy and wanting every possible slave to Live that they can get.

[Woodlife Treestrider]

Forget it. The post that was here was not worth it. Nothing will ever change.

[Windcatcher]

C'mon, guys, let's stop the flaming. Who cares whose work is better? I don't. As far as I'm concerned, the more the merrier, and quality be damned. Beggars can't be choosers, so you won't see me nitpicking.

I haven't mentioned Wiz's project before because he asked me not to, and when I make a promise I do my best to keep it. A lot of this has taken me by surprise, and it's going to take me a little time to get up to speed (not to mention that my time is severely divided). I get a lot of PM's about content-related projects, and it's getting to the point where I'm having trouble keeping the names straight (grin).

I'm gratified to see that there's real enthusiasm now for something independent from EQ. Look at it as sort of graduating from high school -- there's a time for high school, and there's a time to move on. It looks like we might be finally reaching that critical mass point where enough people have decided it's time to move on from EQ such that something meaningful might happen.

I don't mind helping out if I can, but my skills are limited to coding for the most part. I guess I somehow became the guru when it comes to the WLD format, but it looks like that's going to become obsolete knowledge real fast. One thing I can do is add a new exporter to OpenZone so people can use it for any projects that don't involve the live client, if a file-format spec is available. I've been planning on moving the export function out to DLLs at some point anyway.

It sounds to me that Dawntide is very near an alpha stage if I'm reading this correctly, so I guess my biggest questions revolve around the state of the client, server, and content, especially when it comes to protocols and file formats. For that matter, is the source open or closed? What is the policy with regard to content usage? With some specific answers on where things stand I might be able to figure out where I can lend the most assistance. My guess is that this applies to more than just myself: the existence of a client that doesn't use WLD or S3D (and a server that isn't a version of EQEmu) sort of changes everything, and it's going to take the community a little while to figure out where their efforts should go. I have no doubt that there will be plenty of willing players, so don't be offended by some of the remarks -- assimilating something new doesn't usually happen instantly. The best advice I can give is to provide as much information as possible to put people at ease.

[Wiz]

Originally Posted by Woodlife Treestrider

Well, without being able to compare work, and the fact that even if I did, it would not suffice for it. If I had work to compare, people would most likely take Khan's side because they know him better, and because people feel the need to be the bitch of the senior members. To be honest, it get to be really annoying. For instance, I can almost guarantee that if you reply to this post the other members of this community will throw their opinions on the matter down the drain, and follow you. Why? Because they are afraid of being shunned from the only place they can go to talk or whatever. Or maybe it's because they don't want to be made fun of by the senior members and their little bitches that follow them around to get their back's so they can feel like they are "important" to the "cool" people of EQEmu.

The replies I posted to this thread were not meant to be a flame to anyone, or a way to promote my server using the death of Winter's Roar as a footstool. But, leave it to the one person I least expect to say something stupid, to say it. To be honest Wiz, as a person of your intelligence, I kind of expected a reply saying something like "Instead of making two new games, it may just be a better idea to combine them into one large game and let people play for free, just to rub it in Sony's face that we developed a game many times greater than their own, and give it out for free, when their game sucks ass and they charge what is it now? 15 dollars a month?"

Instead, you protect your ego, for some reason feeling the need to point out mistakes in my "judgement". I wonder if it's because you feel like im trying to use your server's death as an ad. Or maybe you just feel the need to protect Khan's ego, which brings back the issue of the well known members having little groups there to protect them.

Once again, the post I made was not meant to provide fuel for a flaming session. It was meant to give an oppurtunity to people who want to develop a game outside of just yours. It was also meant to serve the purpose of hopefully getting something out of you and your team, to hopefully want to do just what WindCatcher said: Start a COMMUNITY project. Not a Wiz and his group project. So I suggest you get over your egocentric self and look at the bigger picture. This isn't about one team competing against another. If you want something to happen, you have to be open to ideas. If you decide to grow up and want to join forces and show those rat basterds over at Sony how a real game is made and presented, you know where to go.

What on earth are you talking about? All I did was point out that your way of talking about how skilled your modeller was made you sound rather assholish, since I figured you probably didn't want to come across like that. How did you extrapolate six paragraphs of stuff from that?

Dawntide is pretty well underway, and I don't think trying to mesh two separate projects with separate leadership and separate goals into something united would work too terribly well, to be completely honest. To the rest of this "Wiz conspiracy" drivel, I'll just shake my head and walk away.

[_Kerosh_]

Ok, I just came on to this topic and read what was happening and apologize for our staff...

[KhaN]

*Snif* peoples says my work is crap :(
Btw, for this Percy (that i never heard about), before saying something is crap, show better :p

GL to you Wiz for DawnTime, but looking how succesful Winter Roars was, you dont really need any luck

[_Kerosh_]

He's shown better but isn't really part of the emu society.

Sorry for this KhaN : (. The thing is, he uses 0 tiling, makes everything from scratch down to every blade of grass. He does Halo 2 quality work

[KhaN]

*Offtopic mode : ON*

He does Halo 2 quality work

EQ Client doesnt support Halo2 type environment ... You are like, claiming to run Doom3 graphics quality with a Quake3 client~ But oh yeah, you own~

Even with the l33test modeler around, you will never be able to have halo 2 graphic quality using EQ Client and OpenZone. Oh yes, im sure under 3DSMax, or whatever software he use, it look kinky, but when it will be converted with OpenZone and used under EQ Client, you will just have the same thing as i do, because you wont have all the things that make Halo2 looks nice (MipMap, BumpMapping, Shading, Reflection, ...).

If you claim to run Halo2 graphic quality zone, there are two options, or you lying and know it, and you are just fucking dumb and dont the jack shit what you are speaking about, now, you choose

*Going back to work now*

Edit : And oh yes, Halo2 looks craps (Very low poly). Add all the leets functions that Halo2 support in OZ, and yes, i and all, will be able to do way better than Halo2.

*Offtopic mode : OFF*

[Woodlife Treestrider]

Originally Posted by _Kerosh_

Ok, I just came on to this topic and read what was happening and apologize for our staff...

Kerosh, do not apologize for me. If I feel the need to apologize to some one, I will admit I am wrong, you do not have to do it for me.

Khan: Sorry for using your work to help give a picture. Your work is great, which is why I used it as an example. No, your work is not crap.

Wiz: If you don't want to, then it's no big deal. The point of the post earlier was meant that I did not expect someone like yourself to point something out that was so small, and it took me off guard. Seeing that instead of posting something like "We should compare projects" you said "Your judgement sucks" (basically, heh). I apologize if the reply was taken in a wrong direction. But, if it was meant to say what I interpreted it as, then I stand by my replies fully. Once again, sorry for any misinterperation on my part.

EqEmu Community: I can say im sorry for wasting posts, but in the end, I still do believe strongly in one thing I said: The lesser known people follow and worship a number of the senior members like they are gods. That is really sad, and hopefully some of you senior members see this. Some people need to get ideas of their own and stand up for their opinions.

If that is not sufficiant enough to satisify anyone who may have been "hurt" in any of the replies I posted, then im sorry. So, if I felt like I was in the wrong somewhere, then I most likely apologized for it up above.

[Woodlife Treestrider]

Originally Posted by KhaN

*Offtopic mode : ON*



EQ Client doesnt support Halo2 type environment ... You are like, claiming to run Doom3 graphics quality with a Quake3 client~ But oh yeah, you own~

Even with the l33test modeler around, you will never be able to have halo 2 graphic quality using EQ Client and OpenZone. Oh yes, im sure under 3DSMax, or whatever software he use, it look kinky, but when it will be converted with OpenZone and used under EQ Client, you will just have the same thing as i do, because you wont have all the things that make Halo2 looks nice (MipMap, BumpMapping, Shading, Reflection, ...).

If you claim to run Halo2 graphic quality zone, there are two options, or you lying and know it, and you are just fucking dumb and dont the jack shit what you are speaking about, now, you choose

*Going back to work now*

Edit : And oh yes, Halo2 looks craps (Very low poly). Add all the leets functions that Halo2 support in OZ, and yes, i and all, will be able to do way better than Halo2.

*Offtopic mode : OFF*

I would make try to make a joke here and say "I am apologizing for Kerosh", but to be frank, I don't see how he is wrong here. I do not think he was using "graphic quality of halo 2" as a literal comparison, but more as a picture to give you. He's trying to say that Percy is pretty much using every option supported by the EQ Client to make zones. This would make them very very well put together.

Khan, I would rather not start another flame topic, so for records, this is not a reply meant to flame you. I am merely saying that Kerosh is using Halo 2's graphics as an example of how well Percy is utilizing the EQ Client as a whole.


P.S.: IMO, I actually liked Halo 2's graphics.

[Windcatcher]

I think what we have here is a state of confusion and lack of information and clear communication. Let me pose a few simple questions:

- who is doing what? It looks like we're talking about more than one project here, and I for one am more than a little confused.

- which projects are using the EQ client (and engine) and which are using their own?

- which are using the EQEmu server and which are using their own?

As I said in my earlier post, providing information is the best way to put people at ease. Some of what I'm seeing here seems to stem from confusion from groping for what's really going on.

I'd also like to step up and defend KhaN here. He does good work, but he's been limited by the EQ client's capabilities (and much more severely by OpenZone's capabilities). Part of the heat he's taking is my fault -- he's been after me for ages to add more capabilities to OpenZone to take full advantage of everything the EQ client can do, but I've been too busy (and it requires using their new file format, at which I havent looked even once). So once again, please stop the flaming. It benefits no one and only sours people on what might become some very interesting projects.