We need the loginserver! - Page 2

#16 12-29-2003, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daeken_bb

Quote:

Giving out an opensource login server is a lawsuit waiting to happen...I don't think it's even worth discussing the giant can of worms you are opening on that issue.

why is that? please get your facts straight before speaking. It is completely legal to release an opensource loginserver. in fact... here... http://daeken.com/login.tar.bz2

Quote:

you can act all high and mighty and call people morons all you want.
but at least we are not the ones who will be sued.

you are very lucky that stupidity isn't a crime or you yourself would be sued for sure.

Nice try but thats a corupted file....
I bet your really just a monkey banging the keyboard...hmmm..
/ignore on.

daeken_bb · #17 12-29-2003, 05:19 AM

i seemed to have no problem opening it, nor did numerous other people.

Bigpull · #18 12-29-2003, 05:22 AM

Shawn319 · #19 12-29-2003, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daeken_bb

Quote:

Giving out an opensource login server is a lawsuit waiting to happen...I don't think it's even worth discussing the giant can of worms you are opening on that issue.

why is that? please get your facts straight before speaking. It is completely legal to release an opensource loginserver. in fact... here... http://daeken.com/login.tar.bz2

Quote:

you can act all high and mighty and call people morons all you want.
but at least we are not the ones who will be sued.

you are very lucky that stupidity isn't a crime or you yourself would be sued for sure.

For the record, this is Daeken's own (rip) of the loginserver. We do not support this in any way.

Second, OUR (official) loginserver is not opensource (at least not anymore) because of the risk it poses to eqlive acounts if it fell into the wrong hands. It is for this reason the loginserver will never be released in any (full) format.

#20 12-29-2003, 05:27 AM

well there ya go hackers.....have at it..

daeken_bb · #21 12-29-2003, 05:30 AM

Actually, that's not a rip at all... it's based off the worldserver source of an early beta of 5 (i believe). i guess i'll have to get off my ass and write the python version before people stop accusing me of ripping source :P

Shawn319 · #22 12-29-2003, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eglin

I haven't actually sniffed any packets, so all of my speculation should be taken w/ a grin of salt. I'm still probably going to write an open-source client at some point, though (if I finally go bband again). I would also probably evaluate the difficulty of modifying world.exe to work w/ the hq loginserver. I can't imagine running a public server where _my_ users would still have to register w/ EQEmu. Why should they? What if I have a falling out w/ the EQEmu project or branch the code? Do I want to have to still be subject to using their login server? I don't think so. Since the world/zone servers are gpl, a branch is a very real possibility. As far as splintering the user-base... I don't see any reason that loginservers couldn't pass information from one to another. Nor am I aware of anything that would prevent modifying world servers to register with multiple login servers. So, while the official stance is that minilogin is not and never will be open source, I think that you can still rest assured that there will eventually be an open source login server.

Are you listening to yourself?

[rant]
//general rant not directed specificly at you Eglin

yes EQemu is opensource and GPL but that doesnt mean you can rip it off however you want (even though it may be legal). 'branching' is immoral and not right. We didnt work this hard the past few years for someone to walk in and take over the project just because they think they could do better or want to take credit for it (not that i'm saying you are doing this).

[/rant]

Shawn319 · #23 12-29-2003, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daeken_bb

Actually, that's not a rip at all... it's based off the worldserver source of an early beta of 5 (i believe). i guess i'll have to get off my ass and write the python version before people stop accusing me of ripping source :P

You're still using our code (or showeq's code). give some credit lol.

Eglin · #24 12-29-2003, 05:57 AM

Before anyone's feelings really get hurt, I'd like to apologize for saying outright that anyone behaved like a moron or made retarded decisions. I didn't intend to start a fist-fight anymore than a peeing contest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn319

Second, OUR (official) loginserver is not opensource (at least not anymore) because of the risk it poses to eqlive acounts if it fell into the wrong hands. It is for this reason the loginserver will never be released in any (full) format.

I don't think this is the case. You need to be on the same network segment as your victim to snoop passwords. If the network is switched (as almost all lans are, these days), it is further complicated. For most people, if you really have someone on your network segment sniffing passwords then you've got a lot more to worry about than just losing your EQ account.

Shawn319 · #25 12-29-2003, 06:09 AM

yeah but i dont think sony would appreciate having their loginserver encryption as opensource. it would give them even more reason to shut us down.

daeken_bb · #26 12-29-2003, 06:10 AM

not to mention that you don't need the crypto for an LS (chat room authentication, for instance) but i still agree with shawn and solar's choice to make the LS closed source.

Shawn319 · #27 12-29-2003, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn319

yeah but i dont think sony would appreciate having their loginserver encryption as opensource. it would give them even more reason to shut us down.

On top of that, they may take more drastic measures to change how eqgame interacts with the server, making eqemu (and eth quest) useless.

daeken_bb · #28 12-29-2003, 06:21 AM

yea... a public-key cryptosystem would fuck us over pretty badly... but that would be nearly as hard on them

Eglin · #29 12-29-2003, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn319

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eglin

I haven't actually sniffed any packets, so all of my speculation should be taken w/ a grin of salt. I'm still probably going to write an open-source client at some point, though (if I finally go bband again). I would also probably evaluate the difficulty of modifying world.exe to work w/ the hq loginserver. I can't imagine running a public server where _my_ users would still have to register w/ EQEmu. Why should they? What if I have a falling out w/ the EQEmu project or branch the code? Do I want to have to still be subject to using their login server? I don't think so. Since the world/zone servers are gpl, a branch is a very real possibility. As far as splintering the user-base... I don't see any reason that loginservers couldn't pass information from one to another. Nor am I aware of anything that would prevent modifying world servers to register with multiple login servers. So, while the official stance is that minilogin is not and never will be open source, I think that you can still rest assured that there will eventually be an open source login server.

Are you listening to yourself?
[rant]
//general rant not directed specificly at you Eglin
yes EQemu is opensource and GPL but that doesnt mean you can rip it off however you want (even though it may be legal). 'branching' is immoral and not right. We didnt work this hard the past few years for someone to walk in and take over the project just because they think they could do better or want to take credit for it (not that i'm saying you are doing this).
[/rant]

Yes, of course I am "listening" to myself. As far as I'm concerned, my expense of hosting a server trumps your desire to maintain control. If I were setting up a server, those would be important questions that I would have to address before committing. And there are more.

Define "rip off." Someone else made comments about claiming code as your own and such, too. Frankly, I don't understand where you're coming from. There is a big difference between writing your name all over the source code and expecting it to remain there and expecting all of _my_ users register on _your_ board. The GPL's intent is to make code free. That means that you are free to do whatever you want with it. Branching isn't evil! The beauty of the GPL is that it makes joins just as common as forks. Since all works derived from GPL works are themselves GPL works, that is the way that it goes. If someone decides to make their little eqemu server into a beast that doesn't use the official loginservers, so be it. If that person decides to call their emulator emueq, so be it. If that person removes all references to eqemu making it impossible to tell, as an end-user, that their server derives from your hard work (or mine), so be it. I think you'd better get used to the idea, in fact. It isn't that this person is trying to take credit for your work, they just aren't crediting you. Well, that's they way it goes. How many people would run apache if it forced a link to its homepage at the bottom of every web page it served?

Eglin · #30 12-29-2003, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn319

yeah but i dont think sony would appreciate having their loginserver encryption as opensource. it would give them even more reason to shut us down.

What about versions with ip-level security, then? Surely there are alternative methods of being secure w/o further offending Sony. Furthermore, it is obvious that having only one loginserver makes it a whole lot easier to get shutdown than having many.