Questions - Page 2

Scorpious2k · #16 07-09-2008, 04:27 PM

My opinion, for whatever it is worth is that, while it would be nice for it to be open source (albeit in delphi), doing this would make it worthless for serverOps.

Once the code is available to all, anyone can recompile it with their own changes. Specifically for cheating. Is there any serverOp out there who wants players with the equivalent of MacroQuest on steroids in the hands of their players? And that would be built in to the client.

I feel that if this were open source, a legit server would be impossible.

On the other hand, if you had it in the hands of a few trusted programmers to help, it might take off some of the pressure on you.

LordRathgil · #17 07-09-2008, 04:41 PM

I disagree Scorpious, simple fact is anyone who wants the source will most likley Rewrite it to suit their needs and wishes and wont redistribute their particular brand of the client. Atleast thats what anyone who would actually want a truly custom client would do source or no source there is enough already open sourced in the client to do far worse then macroquest considering every single packet struct is there not only that but the loginserver code is oss among other things.

If people want to cheat the system i doubt they are going to take the time to edit then recompile a whole client to do it when it would be soooo much simpler to just edit those plain text files.

The entire point of SC is to allow people to make brand new games this cannot be done without the source code, unless they want a cookie cutter version of well EQ.

My two cents is to have an open source version to allow the community to work on it, however SC does NOT work with any servers currently on the public ls anyway so the cheating aspect is really a moot point as any server ops who really are serious about making a totally unique game would likely change a great deal to make it happen both on their server and in the client atleast that is what we would do with LJ.

I mean whats the point of SC if you cant customize it entirely its just a much less developed flavor of the base EQ client if people cant edit it as they want to, seems like a buttload of wasted time on WC's part when you want to impose the same limitations on the people using it that they already endure with the main eq client anyway, Like i said what is the point when they can just use the EQ client if all they can do in SC is add zones and things like that which is all they can do in the EQ client now?

Keeping it closed source is what is keeping the people interested in it from devoting any real time to using it IMO Because like I said why would they bother with it when its simpler to use the main eq client which already works with the latest servers, has a ton more content and models and features

LordRathgil · #18 07-09-2008, 04:50 PM

gah hit the button too soon to finish that last sentance...

It just doesnt make sense to bother with it if you have the same limitations you have with using the eq client the only difference is you can add zones instead of replacing them but you still have to do all the modeling work and everything else so really all you get in the end is the same result as you get when you add custom zones to your eq client.

I fail to see how people can make a truly custom game that gets away from SOE stuff with out being able to truly customize the client.

LordRathgil · #19 07-09-2008, 05:09 PM

I mean really think about it. Keeping it closed up is jsut basicly making it another SOE client that people cant do what they want with to make something truly unique anyone using it will just endup with a customized carbon copy of everyone else that uses it.

I know I for one wouldnt waste my time using something that cant be changed adequately, some people might want to replace the graphics engine for their game, others might want to change the opcodes and add features that are custom to their servers, some might want to remove features.

Keeping it closed up takes all those options out of the mix. Heck some people might want to add encryption specific to their server and login system to it. its just i dunno a waste of WC's time and vision if you want to limit people using it the same way that they are limited with the eq client, its like a total waste of his time and work, Imean he worked his butt off for 4.5 years according to the posts on this to give people the change to make something truly unique and now your saying they shouldnt be able to truly make something unique because of them cheating?

Richardo · #20 07-09-2008, 05:42 PM

Scorpious is right, however... There's ways around it. Require server ops to distribute their own version of the client that is not opensource. For example:

I run server (REVENGE OF AOREKAEPROKROTHERIOAS [PVP]).

My RoA compiled client will have a special ID (that cannot be changed considering it's in the binaries). The server will check the ID and if it does not match what I have specified, it will not connect. And there you go...

LordRathgil · #21 07-09-2008, 05:45 PM

still wont stop people from cheating the source of the eq client has never gotten out and look at macroquest heck look at eqemu. The point here is thatif people want to cheat they will find away whether they have the source or not.

LordRathgil · #22 07-09-2008, 05:49 PM

however richardos idea is a good one like for instance i had planned on adding encryption specific to my server into it. but the thing is like i said without the source all it is is another eq client just not from soe if people cant truly customize it theres no point to using it over the eq client

LordRathgil · #23 07-09-2008, 05:52 PM

And lets not forget that simple client wont work on a normal eqemu server it doesnt work with any of the base eq zones anyway so there is no real threat to the community as a whole anyway, therefore as such taking the chance of people cheating should be left to the server ops taht use the software not to other people imo

Richardo · #24 07-09-2008, 07:01 PM

Well, that was actually my whole point. Using SC as the main client rather than using EQ at all.

LordRathgil · #25 07-09-2008, 07:03 PM

well yeah but thats really far down the road ya know, as it is now its not that popular but i think atleast it should be available by request atleast for server ops even if its not a public release.

LordRathgil · #26 07-09-2008, 07:06 PM

what i mean to say is using SC as the main eqemu client and getting rid of the soe client support in the servers is a ways off i know id personally like to use it for my project now if i had the source to work with and tweak as needed for the project so its not just a custom eq server but a unique game in and of itself, not sure if others would like to do that but i know know that theres no way itd work on a server with a normal install of zones and stuff cause it cant even read soe files so they would need to remake all the zones in order to use it on a normal install of any version of the emu server db

along with all itejm models and icons spells and so forth or they wont be able to play

Richardo · #27 07-10-2008, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordRathgil

well yeah but thats really far down the road ya know, as it is now its not that popular but i think atleast it should be available by request atleast for server ops even if its not a public release.

As long as someone makes a good server and promotes it properly, it doesn't really matter.

sesmar · #28 07-10-2008, 08:42 AM

I am all for releasing the source code, albeit mostly for personal and probably selfish reasons; although, I can see both sides here. I agree that releasing the source will most likely increase interest in SimpleClient and open many possibilities previously unavailable to custom servers. I can also see the disadvantage to releasing the source in that it would make it easier to cheat on a server; however, other games have open source clients and servers and that does not seem to stop them from becoming successful, take Planshift for instance. I think it just requires the developer to get more creative such as Richardo's idea and many other things that can be done in order to prevent people from compiling their own version of the client and connecting to your server.

If my vote counts for anything I vote for releasing the source.

Hell, it is written in Delphi and who the hell uses that anymore (j/k WC).

LordRathgil · #29 07-10-2008, 09:43 AM

worldforge and torque also are available in source format and that doesnt teter them heck minions of mirth which uses the torque mmo kit is opensource and apparently very popular and people dont cheat just because the source is open. To not release the source to the client because of the fear people will cheat doesnt make any real sense.

Infact one of the simplest means of preventing people from using a client other then your own would be the expansions variable in the database if the value doesnt match what the client sends then they are automaticly banned from the world server that solves the problem right there

I still say release it, source or no source people who are determined to find a way to cheat the system will do it reguardless of having the source to do it and they dont need the source to do it either ( Again look at MQ) Planeshift MOM Worldforge are all completely opensource and they dont seem to have a problem with it

LordRathgil · #30 07-10-2008, 06:34 PM

oh and another benefit of opensourcing is that server devs wont have to wait for someone else to make a fix and post a release they could fix them themselves.

A project like SC just wont work with only a few developers atleast not in a timely fashoin they wont be able to work on it 8 hours a day every day ya know? Opensourcing will allow it to get developed much much faster people will post bug fixes, new features and ideas upgrades ( such as upgrading the graphics engine) and so forth.

the only way to allow truly unique games to be made with it is to opensource it, short of that the devs would have to make it so generic and editable that it would be just about the same risk of cheating either way.

So why not just release it and let the community do what its done for all these years and help build it make new flavors of it, make it grow into a good unique pice of software. I guarentee that if the source is released in a short time you will see its popularity grow and see the community chipping in with it contributing their code and additions to this great software.

Well WC so far its a 5 to 1 vote on opensourcing it some good dialog reguarding opening the source has gone on so what do you say, afterall its your project and as far as i can tell the only one of your great programs youve given the community which doesnt include the source.