Patching Alternatives

[a_Guest03]

Additionally,

You can't please everyone. I noticed 60% want to see this happen. I've wanted this since the Platinum series, since before POP, before Velius, even. This should be intuitive, and you shouldn't ask for permission, FNW. You know the answer, and everyone who has been involved for more than two years knows the answer.

This shouldn't be democratic anyway. If you are looking for a solution to please the group, to be considered successful, here are the most basic demands of your public:

1. Everquest, emulated (check)
2. Ability to build a system with control of their world (check)
3. Centralized Loginserver mandatory (check)
4. World content populated (check, could use more, but mostly check)
5. Revitalization of memories relived through gameplay with friends (check)
6. A system that works stably the first time and every time and has support (missing)
7. Documentation (... needs work once system is complete)

Anything else is a desire, a want. The above are 7 identified needs.

What has this community given up in opportunity cost to see this dream?

1. Money - donations (often over $10)
2. Time - time spent in the forums, discussing, testing
3. Risk - risk of losing an EQlive account (granted, small risk)

Let's see... I can't count on hands and feet the times I've seen donations over $10 to see the light at the end of the tunnel, or to make your job easier, to make the above requirements possible.

There's no donatable amount of money that will give us the 6th requirement without using a snapshot. I can't pay for fulltime programmers to fix the bugs, and our collective money (from some teenagers, many 20-somethings, some 30-somethings, and a handful older) just isn't enough! So, the alternative is that we all pay $20 to Sony and its distribution channel for that snapshot. And why not? Homage, to the programmers, to the company that created this program isn't a bad thing. They created the content, the world in which you experienced the original memories. $20 is the cost of two month's membership, no? For unlimited play, I'd pay $20. If anyone sees $20 as more valuable than this, let me know where I can get 7 years of content, programming, innovation, more game than I can handle? The pacman series can still cost $20.

The COMPUTERS THAT RUN THIS, the NETWORK that runs this, all of the capital investments, probably cost LOADS more per person than $20.

This is a steal.

Final positive note: Sony gets paid. They didn't come in and smite us, even though I'm sure enough flexing of the lawyers on retainer would have smote this years ago. Give them a reason to let this happen again in the future, to issue a big release like this again at the end of life for a game. We're giving them a big kiss goodbye, and getting what we've wanted for so long, for a price worth paying.

Think about it, and you'll come to the same conclusion. If you don't, please explain how this is a bad idea.

[TheClaus]

I agree with a_Guest03 on this. I have been here off and on for 3+ years and always hated chasing after live. In the beginning it was a need but now that we have Titanium that has most of the expansions we should focus on getting that up and running and create a stable server.

I'll donate $50 also for a stable snapshot working with Titanium.

[Jalister]

I didn't vote because I'm good with two answers...
-I would buy EQ Titanium if it worked with EQEmu.
-Im happy the way it is, keep fixing bugs.

It would be nice if the emulator could support PoR zones. Not the reworked Oasis and Freeport, just any truly new zones. But not if it would break the emulator.

Anyway, I saw Titanium on sale, so I picked it up just in case.

[Eljier]

For those who do not know Titanium is the most complete install released to date from SOE. Once you install the CD's there are no downloads or patches for the game. Until the new expansion release anyway. To have all expansions except the newest in one complete install is like working from a backup that was never updated. There would be more people involved in EQemu since all you need is a titanium install and a emu server to access. I say #ell yes. I am so sick of paying SOE for 3 accounts, just to have them NERF everything on you. I would like to say thanks to all the people involved with the development of the EQemu, please keep plugin away!!!!

[Jepster4515]

First off, I'm behind you both.

Micro, I too am only looking to run a semi-legit server that will be nicely tucked away behind my firewall with no hope of seeing the light of day, used purely for the enjoyment of myself and my roommates.

a_Guest, you've finished college? Great! If we can convince the (current) devs that focusing just on a snapshot of the game, like the Titanium release, is the most rational thing to do, then I'll pitch in $50 in addition to the cost of the CDs for the devs (and myself, of course). So I won't be able to play on the live servers! I don't think I'll loose any sleep over it.

Devs, please hear the cries of your followers: We want a release that'll work with a CD-released snapshot of the game. 1 Install + 0 patching + x download(s) = running service. That is what we want. The Nov. freeze was a step in the right direction, and no one can (or should) fault you for choosing what was then a convenient stopping point. To modify the fat kid and the icecream truck analogy, some of us ran too far (and patched after the freeze) and others didn't run far enough (stopped patching before the freeze and now find themselves on this side of the cutoff date). A CD-released snapshot will cost us money to get, but it will be a legal solution to the problem because it would be a Sony-blessed distro of the client.

Once the Titanium server is going golden and all is well with the world again, you can (if you so chose to) turn your attentions to the next big compendium release, which will no doubt happen in about *checks his watch, in spite of the fact he isn't wearing one* six months from now, give or take, in line with the release of the next EQ1 expansion.

Jepster
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<Insert witty remark here>

Originally Posted by Eljier

For those who do not know Titanium is the most complete install released to date from SOE. Once you install the CD's there are no downloads or patches for the game. Until the new expansion release anyway. To have all expansions except the newest in one complete install is like working from a backup that was never updated. There would be more people involved in EQemu since all you need is a titanium install and a emu server to access. I say #ell yes. I am so sick of paying SOE for 3 accounts, just to have them NERF everything on you. I would like to say thanks to all the people involved with the development of the EQemu, please keep plugin away!!!!

This *may* have been true when it was first made in the factory, but the very first day it was sold in the stores there was still huge downloads due to SOE patching.

[klinzhai]

I just wanted to put in my 2 cents again.

I think that there would be a lot more support for EQemu if there was a way to actually get the files. It's a world of difference between going and getting a CD that was distributed in the stores and installing the game and trying to find some location that has the patch files from a relatively arbitrary date. I know a good 20+ people who would happily buy and install Titanium if they knew that they could play on any emulator server after that. I'm sure that there are a number of places out there to get the patch files, but it's not that easy to find them (I've looked, but I'm not going to burn hour upon hour searching) as opposed to going to the store to buy the discs. Also, even if I did find the files, then I'd have to burn it to a DVD so that I could get the files over to my friends. If we could simply use the Titanium CDs, it would be a world of difference, since I'm sure there are thousands and thousands of copies of the CDs out there right now and you can still buy the CDs today. Kind of like the Kunark CDs... I know a good dozen people who still have copies of their Kunark CDs. I'm about 99% sure that I don't know anyone with a compatible set of files for the EQ Emulator.

I honestly think that the relative lack of activity in the community (compared to some other emulator communities like UO or even WoW) is because of the difficulty in acquiring a working client. While a good number of people could care less if there were an easier way to get a working client, I think that there would be a lot more tools available, from quest creation tools and mob creation tools to even possibly zone creation tools for people who want to make their own zones. I wouldn't be suprised if there were some of these tools out there already, but I think that the quality of them would possibly go up with a more active community.

In short, having a 'release' version to use for the client could only help the community. There would be zero downfalls and while there might be some people who would still whine about not being able to get the files, their justification for saying they can't get a widely available distribution would be vanishingly small.

[johane]

Originally Posted by Eljier

For those who do not know Titanium is the most complete install released to date from SOE. Once you install the CD's there are no downloads or patches for the game. Until the new expansion release anyway. To have all expansions except the newest in one complete install is like working from a backup that was never updated. There would be more people involved in EQemu since all you need is a titanium install and a emu server to access. I say #ell yes. I am so sick of paying SOE for 3 accounts, just to have them NERF everything on you. I would like to say thanks to all the people involved with the development of the EQemu, please keep plugin away!!!!

So you are saying that unlike every other disk SOE has released this one works, out of the box without any patching?

I'd have thought that if the disks were broken (like in evolution, or velious or kunark) then it'd be useless for eqemu purposes.

No, he was 100% wrong, it DOES patch.

Never the less it is very complete.

[johane]

Originally Posted by mattmeck

No, he was 100% wrong, it DOES patch.

Never the less it is very complete.

OK, so my stupid question is:

What evidence is there that Titanium can run properly against any version of eqemu ever? i.e. How can one be certain that the client on the disks isnt broken in some very fundamental way that totally precludes it ever being better than x% running with an emulator?

Originally Posted by johane

OK, so my stupid question is:

What evidence is there that Titanium can run properly against any version of eqemu ever? i.e. How can one be certain that the client on the disks isnt broken in some very fundamental way that totally precludes it ever being better than x% running with an emulator?

The fact the Devs are going to recreate the EMU from scratch to work with it. (if its decided to go that way)

[johane]

Originally Posted by mattmeck

The fact the Devs are going to recreate the EMU from scratch to work with it. (if its decided to go that way)

This is the kind of idea that we used to describe to managers as "couragous", knowing that that would get it cancelled!

[klinzhai]

Originally Posted by johane

This is the kind of idea that we used to describe to managers as "couragous", knowing that that would get it cancelled!

Well, considering these guys pulled it off (pretty quickly too, if you ask me), I'd say your managers were pussies.

[johane]

Originally Posted by klinzhai

Well, considering these guys pulled it off (pretty quickly too, if you ask me), I'd say your managers were pussies.

Let me give you a clue:

A manager's job is to manage risk and to try to keep everyone as happy as possible whilst also keeping the money flowing. A decision that could piss people off entails risk (i.e. either have no new people join the emu or piss off people who don't want to buy titanium who play with emu quite nicely.). As it was the dev came up with a low risk solution (although FNW did post that things could get a bit more CPU bound supporting more patch levels). This solution was not actually what was being proposed at the time this survey was made - am I right in supposing it was this thread that made devs think "Hey we can make eveyone happy here"? Damn cunning approach to solve problem IMHO.

[~RD~ Innapropriate comments edited out. This forum is not the place to make those comparisons. Save that for when you're with your buddies, quoting the key lines from Team America:World Police.]

[Armanthuz]

Ive been following and contributing to this project over the years and i can simplify the argument for the non-technical users.

Sony makes a ton of money and pays MANY programmers/developers to make stuff for everquest.

To expect 2 programmers to be able to reverse engineer and implement not only the communication between client and server stuff but ALSO the new features they add is well fantasy.

Im constantlly amazed how fast these guys took a game that was hemmoraging badly from trying to keep up to something thats pretty amazing if you knew the difficulty on what they are doing.