EQEmu losing hosting

Originally Posted by Angelox

So why hasn't SOE shut down the other sites?
Anyway, I had a "points for donation" system in mind, not really a "pay to play" one.

What other sites?

EQEmu is the only emulator that I know of thats still active, and any individual server that charged, or offered perks for donation to them got shut down

[MysticDeath]

I think he is talking about the specific server sites, that have their own patchers. I could be very wrong.

[cavedude]

Some servers have been issued C&Ds, I can think of 4 off the top of my head. They generally had at least 2 of the following against them:

Well advertised (banners over the net, merchandise)
Very large populations (Well over 200)
Patchers/custom client content
Requested donations

[fnemo]

Originally Posted by mattmeck

There was offerers from at least 5 people for Boxes, No offense to you, but its a trust issue, anyone who hosts it would have access to everything, login server, forums, peoples user names and passwords.

This is one of the reasons this type of assistance wasnt taken from people thats aren't well known.

I was here for quite a long time here... I worked on the code, added stuff with yodason and participating in introducing non SoE stuff in EQemu with Khan. I helped WC with his tools as I could. I launched the ProjectEQ, donating (as lot of us) to this project, etc etc.

I'm not just an unknown guy and I also can "publish" my personal information if required.

So don't tell me I'm not well known down here ...

[brinks]

There's a few old schoolers left around, most of us don't post much; such as myself. But just because we aren't known doesn't mean we don't exist. This project is dear to my heart and I want to see it continue its development.

So if you have a few extra bones you can spare, donate.

Thats all for now.

[Angelox]

I'm sure this wasn't the point Matt was trying to get accross - he was not trying to offend anyone.
But really, Doodman said to contact him for that. BTW, good luck contacting him or anyone for that matter.
I'm already frustrated with this donation scene, I see hardly any response to a major effort put out by the people that helped out.
You old-timers: I would have loved to have been here when it all started, and everyone was full of ideas and pumping in new things all the time, I know I missed a lot. I think one problem is people are split up into their own forums.There's not a lot of us in the scene, and on top of it, we're all split up.

[techguy84]

I am not a old timer, although I did use the project seveal years ago. I dont count myself as being someone that should be trusted, wether I was here for 10 years or 10 days. All they asked for was donations, and thats what we gave (giving) them now. If they wanted someone to host the things on there computer, they would have asked for that, but the simple idea boils down to this,

You dont want one person holding all the power in a communtity. Especially someone outside of the dev department. They asked for donations to find a dedcated hosting solution that has no bias towards others. What if the person so willing to host the project on their own equipment has a fall out with one of the devs, or one of the many community members. That person holds everything up for ransom because of the situation.

I dont know about you, but thats not a good outcome. The hosting should be done by a businnes not affilated with the project to prevent things like negotiations.

There is a multitude of ways to help here other than just offering equipment. Advice, Guides, Code, Database, Bug Reporting, just to name a few. If they come up and say "EQEmulator is in need of Coders" then we need to help code. Now though, its "EqEmulator is in need of Donations" plain and simple.

Thats just my point of view though. And you can choose not to listen to it as I am, might as well be, Noob. I have no leverage in the project, but I do care alot about it, so I have a voice.

P.S. As it has been covered, the biggest downside to finding a host is the Loginserver. It's closed source by its author and the dev team. The reasons are obvious, but to find a host, you have to have a host that you can trust with that information. And who better than someone that doesnt even know of EQEmu.

[ElBigmac]

I'm probably not the only one who doesn't understand the need for any kind of special hosting. Add to this the fact that a big part of this project is closed source and you get a user base which feels this is someone else's project. I think these are the main reasons so few people do donate to this project and why many who did will probably never donate again. Don't take this the wrong way, parts of this project are open sourced, nobody can be against that and it is always a shame to see this threatened in any way.

This project however did not start out with such requirements for money, and why it acquired them along the way is but one of the many sad things which happened to it. This project has always been in some kind of danger of being shut down at some point, but it was never really by Sony, which is odd as Sony is the only one this project should have to worry about.

This is an EverQuest emulator. EverQuest is a Sony product. Sony does not like people making money off of them and will do all they can to prevent that. So all that is needed for this project to carry-on is to stay away from Sony's pockets. Believe me when I say that the people at Sony can count better than you and I can. They will not go out spending a single dime if they do not see a gain from it. How much would that be worth? Would you spend money to shut down what is known as "EqEmu"?

Funny thing is allot of people would say "Yes!". Those people, who often have their own agendas besides the good of the project, justify it with different far fetched ideas, when in fact EqEmu is just an innocent bystander in their ideas and not the core problem at all. But hey, at least those people try to justify themselves rather than just coming up to you and being upfront about them just doing it because they can or just feel like it. Then there are those who just want to fit in! I tell you, Sony is the least of this projects worries. Then there are those like me who just stood by all these years not caring enough to try to change things.

Actually, I did donate 100$ to the project a few years back, but then the guy to whom I donated was pushed out of the project and almost took it down with him. Not to mention that it didn't evolve any faster after people donated whatever was needed. Actually it didn't evolve at all for a darn long while. That made me wonder why they needed any money in the first place when you can just pay 5$ a month to host a forum.

I will say this about the community, People are now really helpful on this forum, which is a real nice change as this place was packed so full of jack-asses you couldn't get a straight answer about anything. Cheers to everyone here but me, cause I don't do a thing.

[techguy84]

Who said you don't do a thing. If you have answered a question, made a donation, or ever just logged on to say high, that all still counts, or in my book it does.

The only closed source thing on this project is the loginserver. Everything else can be ripped apart and made however you want it. Although it may not work worth a damn once you do, you still have the option to do so. How many parts are there to the project.

- World Server - Open
- Zone Server - Open
- Database - Open
- Mini Login - Open
- Public Login - Closed
- Website - Closed
- Forums - Closed

The bottom two are like that for obvious reasons, as you just cant waltz in to Google and want to change the Front Page logo to Girggle right.

I can understand haveing someone host it in the name of saving money, donations, time ect.... but there are just too many varibles to having someone do this. Way to many for me anyhow. It would be great and all, but look where we are now. Krusher donated his time to giving us hosting, and now all of a sudden, we're are losing that hosting. It was great to only come up with the money to pay the DNS fee, but what's a name without good sound hosting solution behind it. Finding a dedicated solution from a named business alllows some peace of mind as they, 99% of the time, will not be going anywhere so long as they are making $$$.

I could host it all on my computer here at home, but what if I get plowed over by a rampaging group of angry cattle while in the middle of broad daylight. Its far fetched, but something as sane as that could cause issues. Where would I be when that happens and the server goes down. Not where I need to be.

Now imagine that you work for ahhh lets say 1 & 1. You get run over by Bessie, but there are 100 other people to make sure that the server continues if the power goes out and it needs a reboot.

Kinda see where I am going.....?

ElBigmac, I assume you are refering to the Hogie situation so my responce is to that.

EQEmu relied on donation from the start all the way until Krusher offered hosting, Hogie was forced out because partly because of the donation situation (i really don't want to get into the crap that was that time period again).

So yes Eqemu had donations, yes EQEmu ran on donations, and yes its that way again.


I am a little upset because the current Developers don't come to the forums too often myself, I don't have much time lately, and i am in the dark as to whats going on as everyone else. Now I also need to say that I trust Doodman and FNW in what there doing, so even tho I'm a little frustrated I know things will work out.

[Angelox]

Mini-Login is closed too. I guess open source is open, but depends on how you look at it? I can understand where something needs money to operate. I'm the first to agree money *is* "the root of all evil" , but it's all we got, so we have to live with it, and you need money in order to run any kind of operation.
On thing I would really hate to se go are these Forums. EqEmu forums is the envy of anyone who wants to make a forum of this sort, and will always be the best EqEmulator forum ever. It has Information and a unique history attached to it, that would be almost impossible to replace.

[ElBigmac]

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the money will and always has been used towards EqEmu clean and simple. What I am saying is that I just don't know if it really makes a difference in the end to go for high end stuff (I am talking about features like root access and the like) when I remember that this project only ever picked up momentum because it actually had potential, it wasnt even hosted then (I dont remember the original developpe's name that donated the original source code). Back then, there was no dedicated hosting or central login server to sustain, only the basic infrastructure to allow for source code to be exchanged and communication (web site was hosted by Tux for a while IIRC...). I know there was some cost, but my point is it looks to me that this project has become accustomed to "Luxury", so-to-speak, as I don't understand why hosting can be a problem in a era of dirt cheap hosting solutions.

Just to clarify also, the people who did give money made a very selfless gesture and they are to be commended. You guys did a good thing. But as nice of an action as that was, I does not help others see why it is needed or feel more concerned about it.

Finally, I understand why the Devs don't show up on the forums much, its not their thing and it really doesn't matter cause they don't really have to. Their thing is to code whenever they have time outside of "real life" and they do an awesome job of it looking at the change logs. However, weekend warriors are hardly a company, no matter how good they are. This is also why I don't understand why the project need better hosting than the company I work for does as they develop software all week long.

So thats it really, the fine difference between knowing whats going on and why it need to be that way. I'm talking about the why.

[EmanonCow]

The closed-source login server isn't a http website. It is a network application.

So you can't just buy a forum and website hosting provider.

[sfisque]

Originally Posted by EmanonCow

The closed-source login server isn't a http website. It is a network application.

So you can't just buy a forum and website hosting provider.

i think what Elbigmac is getting at is that if push came to shove, "we" (being the community) could do this without high end hosting, if we were willing to "rough it" so to speak. meaning (and i admit i'm paraphrasing/assuming here) we could find a dirt cheap hosting for website/forums, and someone or two trustworthy could host irc and/or login server. its not optimal but in the end, it gets the job done and sometimes it can be good to "go back to your roots".

i was one of the peeps who offered a pipe and some hardware in addition to donating, but TBH, i didnt get miffed when i didnt get a response. i'm a security nut (i host my own email because i dont trust others with handling it) so i appreciate the issues involved with letting someone host this project. its nothing personal, they just need to be sure because its a decision that affects the community as a whole and not just "them".

i will say i do agree with some people's mention that "a little more info" would be conducive. a decent group of us donated, we'd like to know what's going on, even if its just "we're talking to some providers, and our plan involves possibilities Y,Z, and W." if for nothing more, at least it lets us know the money is well spent, because in the end, just as most of us are strangers to the core group, they are strangers to us, and a donation is a leap of trust to an extent. /shrug.

== sfisque

[Angelox]

I think a more exciting aspect of the project is that fact that you can actually play this game at home alone, or with friends (MiniLogin).
It is already to a point where you really don't need anything , not any login or what ever. You just need to get your MiniLogin running and presto! you're playing a decent game of EQ at home, independent of Logins, monthly rent payments, or anything else.
I finally truely own my copy of Everquest (which I paid dearly for over the years) and can play it as I please .