Hacker

[kylekuschel]

Yeah. I have to agree with LE. If it gets axed now, I would bet money on EQemu falling apart.

[froglok23]

Agreed, I dont think forking is the way to go,But what are other peoples suggestions? Im sure we can come up with something.

As dax said tho, In order to move forward wehave to seize control... get the catapults and knights ready! lol jk

But seriourly though, We will need to apoint new dev's... so who is up for it.. becomming a EQEmu Dev?

- froglok

[oldlurker]

Don't you think that FNW and Doodman might have their reasons for being absent? Granted, their lack of communication might just be general burnout with the whole project but remember who did hold this project together in the last few years? Yes, their lack of communication is unsettling. But magine you where in their shoes, come back from a much needed vacation and see the boards in full uproar?
I was very exited to see work done for supporting the Anniversary Edition. It was my hope that FNW would update the tools so that we once again could collect data from the life servers.

Originally Posted by froglock23

I also propose that we need to take control of the site and get the passwords handed over. If not, its time for a new domain or something. We need people with access on baord to move the project forward

Why not demand them to hand over the whole server but keep paying the bills!? I think you are kidding!

Bottom line is that without an Login Server you can't make this happen. And we all know that we cant get the existing one.

Btw: Who would be 'we' in 'we need control'? There is an abundance of people with more or less ambitious ideas coming here but very few of them have the staying power to see it happen.

[froglok23]

I would think that we would be a large group of community members, which would actually be made up of the existing ones also.
Obtaining the above stated information to new people who join their ranks would allow better communication and increased development.

I’m not saying cut them off or anything of the sort. Let’s just expand people who can have access to such systems (i.e. the source tree but NOT the login server source).

What do you then suggest oldlurker, I’m all ears. You’re a member of this community just as everyone else, your input is valued.

Once again, my statement was meant to convey that the people in the teams (or the team size themselves) who have access to such things as the site, and source code tree be increased.

- froglok

[froglok23]

My ideas and suggestions may or may nto be the right line of thinking, but lets get thinking instead of picking holes in everythign suggested. If there is a reason why an idea is flawed, point it out and ifyou can, suggest another course we can take, instead of just slammign the door shut.

- froglok

[techguy84]

Hmm, lots going on here. Maybe I should keep my mouth shut, maybe I shouldnt, but hey, lets see where this goes.

First off, spliting the project is a idea, but let someone come in with some hard data say who will be on the dev team of the new project. All those in favor of a split can say "I" all they want to, but little code changes here and there just dont amount to anything when your just going to be siphioning the code that the original dev team is putting out.

I propose that the forums Admins spark of a fork in the development thread for 3rd party development. Anyone with some code changes that just cant simply make it to the table of the emu's source can put thier changes here. Then, anyone want to add their own 3rd party patches can swing by, grab that code and put it into thier own servers. This will add varitey and advantage to the server population out there. Server X runs on standard source while Server A runs on modified patched source. If there is someway to make people aware of what changes you have in place readily, people can see and say "Hey, this one does so much more than X, im going there to enjoy my emulating expierences"

The principle idea is already in effect, it just applies to custom content other than a "Live Like" expiernce. Non-Legit, Semi-Legit, Legit-Classic ect...

This could be way better than forking something thats is at this age, with no hardcore solid dev team to back up the new fork.

A way to possibly keep the masses happy, keep things confined to this community, and to keep people informed is to take things that are out of your control and work around them. You cant have the LS code, no matter how bad you want it. Forking on the ML would look like a hooker in her Sunday's Finest, it just would look silly. Why not take the crew that does see a issue, that does have some power and work around it. Matt, Angelox, you guys have the power to make new boards right, if not, you have the power to sticky stuff where it can be seen by most people coming in. If so, sticky a topic for a 3rd Party development forum that is off site. That forum could server as a way for people to get thier code fixes and patches. These servers are 3rd Party, and in no way endorsed or supported here. If your on a modded server, and you have problems, dont come back to us, as the people that made the mods you used.

I feel like I am repeating myself here, but you guys get the point. Fork Bad, New Options other than Fork Good.

Hell, for those that are truly hardcore, passionate EQEmu lovers, why not spoon the project. That sure bound to make people happier.

[froglok23]

Thanks techguy84 for your thought-out input

- froglok

[boogerific]

Originally Posted by froglok23

I was giving them a change to repsond to this thread, but as you have said, it has been 5 days.

Real nice. 5 days in week leading into a major (U.S.) holiday weekend just before school starts. I think you guys need to calm down a bit. You need to ask yourselves:

Are you *really* prepared to "take over" AND pick up the tab on hosting fees, etc, out of your own pockets if necessary? Are you *really* prepared and willing to do whatever else is necessary to pull it off, possibly at the expense of spouse and family, no matter how much time, effort and money it takes? Are you prepared to do the equivalent of taking over a business that has no income?

It's not like putting in some overtime at work. There's not one iota of profit here to justify a possible major timesink. People start their own servers here time and again, only to find out that they really DON'T have all the time in the world to put into it and the server goes away. What you're proposing will take much more commitment than starting and maintaining a server.

[froglok23]

Hmm, I was going to post a lengthy reply to your reply, but thought it best not to.

Let’s keep it on track and discuss ideas on how to get the project moving forward again and not criticising every suggestion made.

If you want, maybe even suggest something positive yourself?

- froglok

[froglok23]

The amount of negativity here is truly just astonishing!

- froglok

[boogerific]

Originally Posted by froglok23

The amount of negativity here is truly just astonishing!

- froglok

I'm not a negative person at all. I've just been around the block enough times that what I've been observing here is a lot of energy and talk (which is good, and I do respect people's thoughts and opinions) without seeing a lot of practicality/reality, so I finally decided to post. I would hate to see you guys go off half-cocked, unprepared for the cold, hard reality of it. Nothing was meant to derail, just to get you all to make sure you're thinking things through, thoroughly. When you make a business plan, make sure it's complete or the bank will turn you down every time.

[froglok23]

Hi Boogerific (lol)

Cool Coo, Sorry if I jumped the gun also. But yes, a lot of talk does not always mean a lot of effect.

TBH, I have NO IDEA what’s going on in the US as I’m half a world away: P

I’d love to get some input from you also; your head seems screwed on.

I wish to say again, I do not wish to cause any hard or ill feelings towards the current administration of staff, my intention is to get communication flowing again between the various teams / section.

Any comments, suggestions, (insert other words here), anything which can be a positive input (yes, even criticism constructed right, can be positive).

On that note, I am also willing to donate a fully hosted server towards EQEmu development, current it’s running windows as the host OS, but its powerful enough to run 4 or 5 VM's of any OS on it (with the exception of MacOS.. NFI about MacOS lol).

The most community feedback and input we get the better paths we can follow.

WE = the community (I should really state that more), INCLUDING the current staff / devs / admins of the project.

Another option is also, driving interest with EQ2Emu and EQEmu, I’m sure something can be worked out here to increase the dev team size and valid input from the community here: P

Thoughts / ideas always welcome (Be constructive and not destructive please). If you have a valid concern, please raise it.

Yes I’ve been very active with this thread, why? Well EQEmu means a lot to a lot of people, so let’s continue it as a strong and healthy project together!

- froglok

[boogerific]

Unfortunately I'm a player, not a programmer or coder. I just have a lot of experience in business management and telecom from days gone by. I really don't have any experience in software-type projects or teams.

[oldlurker]

So I am negative ... well, I think I can live with that. The gist of my posting was not to throw the baby out with the bathwater right now but wait till FNW and Doodman have a chance to answer.

How about stop derailing this thread and instead start doing some measurable work toward identifying and fixing this exploit?

[John Adams]

Personally, I am in full agreement with getting the train back on it's tracks - fixing the existing problem, not scrapping it and starting all over. I feel the incredible amount of disrespect being shown the existing devs is what is astonishing. No, they do not sit at their terminals 12 hours a day pumping out code for EQEmulator. They are also not a team of 20 devs, but a fairly small handful of people who do this when "life" allows them time to do it.

This is not a professional dev team. The root problem here is not "where is FNW, Doodman, Rogean", etc. It's "Why is there no interest in other c++ savvy developers jumping on the bandwagon to help EQEmu?"

That answer is simple. There is no interest (by comparison to other EMUs) in EQ anymore. It is just too old, and anyone who ever played this game originally has to at least be in their early 20's now with no time to devote to this project, jobs + family + life = no gaming. Interest in EQEmu for most it seems is like wanting to go back to Sea World again to try and recapture some feelings of wonder and amazement when they were a kid.

Froggy, I am not trying to be negative, but realistic. But I cannot see how threatening to splinter the project, take over, push the old dudes out, and somehow expect there to be a platoon of fresh new devs to carry on their work is going to help. I see very few new dev types stepping up to simply start adding to the current functionality - only crying that the devs don't communicate.

Let me ask you this; If all you ever saw when you came to the community forum is "arrogant devs" "devs don't care" "devs don't talk" "replace them they suck" and an assortment of other insanely disrespectful outbursts from people who generally don't do shit but run their mouths, why would you want to communicate or help any longer?

If our mission here is to make this community more dev-friendly, meaning show some f__cking gratitude for the efforts made thus far, and try and help the existing team get back on track, I am all for it. But any movement towards splintering, branching, "forking", and I (as a community member) will be done here entirely.