hi all,
i've rezz'ed this from some old attic of mine. Did anything change since then ? hehe
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Malevolent
Mad Scientist
Joined: 24 Mar 2002
Posts: 171
Posted: 05-07-2002 03:38 AM Post subject: Obersvations by a ServerOp...
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I decided to share some notes of various observations on the player accounts of the different people who have decided to utilize my server. Keep in mind that I advertise my server to be different than eqlive purists, and also advertise it to be bug ridden.
Of the 247 accounts that have registered on my server, only two player avatars appear to have actually tried to level. The spread tends to be 1, 60, 100 depending. Based on the communication that I've seen in-game and directed towards me, I would think that people are looking to get a quick hit of uberness, and not wanting to go through the leveling process.
1. Everyone wants to be a gm.
2. Once a person has attained GM status or found themselves to be high enough level, they next summon various high level elite gear and equip it.
3. Players have a tendency to fight one another rather than band.
However, point 3 highlights another tendency I've noted. When a player joins my server, they tend to be with another person. As one chap asked of me yesterday, "can you flag my account? my friend and I want to mess around".
I think that sums up the current player attitude for my server, and have to wonder if that same attitude doesn't wash over to the other servers. Should this attitude persist between servers, then there are several questions that might be asked.
1. What kind of playstyle are these people looking for? It seems that the majority are looking for a quick hit (give me ubergear, uberlevel, then kill some big mob) and then log out and come back every now and again to repeat the addictive hit. This is further supported by the many times repeated saying of "is this server levelme? can i level myself? what server is levelme?"
2. How can we more effectively build communities per server and for general support of the emu too? A quick look to the server's forum indicates that the community health per server is rather low. Based on what I see in the irc chat, I might argue that the only server seemingly in relatively good community health is eros. For it would be the only one mentioned that I've seen where the basics of a community are starting to emerge. I would say that community is more important than the quick hit players. I think many of us here would like to see players develop attachments and general feelings for their characters and the server they play on, even if it is negative. For getting that distinctive community oriented experience, that's largely and in part what EQ is about.
I've been evaluating Eros for my own server, and expect to be making some changes to work within the example that it has set. This will include destruction of the lab, but not of all the nonpure live stuff I've been working on.
Some bits to think about.
--MV
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stormgod
Emu addict
Joined: 11 Apr 2002
Posts: 420
Posted: 05-07-2002 03:46 AM Post subject:
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I agree on all the line and confirm what you said , on my server with just 140 accounts , I noticed that petitions are only for flagging or summons,
with a MOTD asking players to come to the site and leave a comment I just got one comment on a full week , with players playing more than 10 hours on my server it resumes for me the experience I got as a guild webmaster in EQLive :
" we can play 24 hours a day 7 day a week EQLive , but we will not give you a small comment and we will not take 5 minutes of our time per day to visit the site and leave a comment / update our player profile ".
with this mentality I am looking forward a password protected server in the future , asking player to /password in the 5 mins he entered the world else he will be kicked out .
Its not that I dont like the spirit of players coming on my comp , but I really dont like the attitude , I come , I play , I have fun and F**K this guy and his comments
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Malevolent
Mad Scientist
Joined: 24 Mar 2002
Posts: 171
Posted: 05-07-2002 04:13 AM Post subject:
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I do understand that having build in various guild leadership positions during the course of my eqlive career.
I believe the key is developing and subsequently promoting a healthier attitude within a given community. The maintainers have been doing an excellent job at that by banning warezers, and other otherwise clueless individuals.
The only problem I see and have is that the potential player pool might be so small as to not be possible to develop any meaningful community outside of the larger developer one. That concerns me greatly. Is it the logical consequence of any emulator project? I've been involved with another that had this problem (UOX), but did not recognize it at the time.
The developer agents of the game itself can at least market their game to John Q. Public, but the emulated project simply can't reach out and touch somebody. That somebody has to be someone who knows enough to find emulation, and to have the general interest enough to actually try to play on emulated servers.
bnetd was successful, but it held a central premise about building community. Can MMOG emulators do the same?
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Locoelf
Newbie
Joined: 07 Mar 2002
Posts: 28
Posted: 05-07-2002 05:38 AM Post subject: The Underworld Server
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Hello. I am a ServerOp on the Underworld Server. Se have just over 750+ accounts. And I have made many of the same observations that you have. One of the biggest is "Uberness" I can bet that anyone who logs on to a server and has to level on their own, wont stay long. When they log in to a server they need to know there is a difference. Whether if its with levels, or with status, or even with a GM event. They have to feel the contrast. Now with that contrast I feel players lose the general aspects of EverQuest like roleplaying. And I think the biggest problem, like the previous post said, about getting people to POST. The Underworld Server is trying something new, and to be involved you HAVE to read the messageboard and the MOTD. Which very few people do. Now the one time that we REQUESTED over and over for players to read the board. We have 91 views. Thats 91 out of 750+ Those aren't good odds...Perhaps we need to have most quest NPCs...<shrug>
Basically here is the outlay of the Underworld..
There are 3 factions, each faction has a leader, each faction has a god, each god is a gm, each gm doesn't allow the guild members to know who they are...Each guild has its own TERRITORY, and each territory its own NEW zone or stronghold.
Thats the basic overlay. We just started this a few weeks ago and of course we encountered problems. Problems like instant cast healing items, and DB cleaning. Problems like ROLEPLAYING and how some people do it and some people dont. Problems with LoH, Mend, and Grip of Agony refreshing too quickly, and the BIGGEST problem, guild leaders not being on to recruit. Its still all very experimental but we are trying to make a stride in the ideas of taking the Emu to a new place.
But to be honest, I think the thing servers need the most is a GM! When I first started on the Emu, EVERY server I went to had everything, all the zones, a lot of the mobs, and some other players. But NO Gms! The one thing I have noticed is, word spreads, and when GMs are online players log on!
When I log in every morning there are about 3 people. Or in the afternoon when there are about 5. Now if I were to have a GM event, or just let the players know I am online, MORE PEOPLE COME! This goes back to my previous point of the contrast. I mean as much as we are trying to make it more and more like the real EQ, I think it NOT being the same is what makes it the most fun.
This is just my input...saw the post and a lot of the things said I had also recognized so, I hope this helped someone, or you enjoyed reading it...Stop by the Underworld one day and Please, Please, READ THE MOTD! <smile>
Locoelf on Emu
MajrMovies on IRC
Apprentice on Underworld
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Trumpcard
Developer
Joined: 22 Jan 2002
Posts: 2486
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posted: 05-07-2002 01:36 PM Post subject:
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Im interested in playing on the servers, and leveling up the old fashion way (Im the odd guy that enjoys low levels more than super high ones) but , I wouldnt want to invest a whole lot of time playing when the possibility of player wipes due to db changes is very strong. As the architecture of eqemu stabilizes and concretes, actually playing on one of our servers will be a strong and fun possibility, but at this time I still tend to think that the baseline is too unstable to warrant serious play time, and that is the general feeling that alot of players have.
Once the servers and emulators have stablizied, I will be willing to bet that you will see a new type of player emerge. As it stands now, people still have the general impression that the servers are just to explore and play around on, not seriously play, and under the circumstances, I tend to agree.
I think it might be a little early to analyze the player type dispositions.
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stormgod
Emu addict
Joined: 11 Apr 2002
Posts: 420
Posted: 05-07-2002 03:03 PM Post subject:
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guess you're right trumpcard , I plan to wipe out my db with 3.2 lol
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TheClaus
Supporter
Joined: 19 Jan 2002
Posts: 307
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posted: 05-07-2002 03:14 PM Post subject:
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I think one way to stop this is to wipe the current item db and make your own. Sure it would take awhile but in the end people would have to level up and kill things to get the items. Also if leveling wasn't such a hassle in later levels then it wouldn't be a problem. The people wanting uber gear and such just to get a quick fix should really think about playing Jedi Knight or Quake. Everquest and EQEMU is about the Roleplaying experience not a lets kill them all and be done. I have been working on a new item database and almost have 10 levels worth of items complete. Also working with mob hitpoints to make it worth the effort is a task too. I plan on having 1 group take down a dragon not 1 guild. Why??? Cause with the current way the network lag is it won't be much fun to go LD cause my bandwidth can only handle 6 to 8 people and there are 12 on. If there was a variable to set in the server then that would be perfect. I would have to agree with Trumpcard though. Code is not stable enough to warrent serious gameplay and bottom line is that if you don't allow the players to get the gear and level up quickly they'll go to a server that will let them. Personally I wouldn't want those players on my server cause they ruin the experience for everyone that is trying hard.
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Hogie
GiMP
Joined: 26 Jan 2002
Posts: 15280
Posted: 05-07-2002 03:57 PM Post subject:
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With one of the bigger account databases & character databases (maybe only 2nd to Eros?), I know how this is. I have been thinking about what I want from my server... I can't stand being on my server lately because all I get are petitions about leveling, or "can I be a gm?". They get mad when I tell them they can be a ServerOP if they goto
http://eqemu.org and download the server software.
I know where they are coming from, but do you really ask for a position from someone you dont know on their personal machines where you can do damage to data? If you do, what are you thinking? Why dont they /petition Can I be a gm? on the live servers?
As for me, I am currently building more zone boxes (and a firewall for my subnet to monitor usage) for Hogiebane. I will be spinning a test server off soon which will probably stay locked unless I need more people on it to test other things.... Since I am a Dev, I will be able to write scripts/programs to update my character tables when (if) we change it. I plan to update Hogiebane to a leveling server when I get more quests & fix the lower level mobs.
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Malevolent
Mad Scientist
Joined: 24 Mar 2002
Posts: 171
Posted: 05-07-2002 04:05 PM Post subject:
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I don't think it is a bad idea to see what kind of player is out there right now, as anyone who might be considering putting together a live-like server and lot of personal time investment might be in for a surprise. Besides, if we know where we are now, and know where we want to be, then we can work to get from A to B.
So far as getting from A to B, these are in brief the suggestions that have been listed to date:
1. Have GMs readily available to assist players.
2. Don't wipe the player database and the items that have been collected from a given release.
3. Have unique content
4. A more stable server
Notes:
1. What is the purpose for a GM? Is it to have a central actor to whom people can roleplay too? Or is the GM more for QA, to unstick players and help them when something breaks? Definitely one role is to put in place a police-structure to keep the server healthy.
2. Even if a new database structure has been released, in theory, one could transfer the accounting information of the players over to the new format with minimal or no data error.
3. Is it unique content or a unique play experience? Or both?
4. A more stable server does not necessarily mean one that is more feature rich than any other. Just one that is more consistent and/or more reliable.
--MV
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Malevolent
Mad Scientist
Joined: 24 Mar 2002
Posts: 171
Posted: 05-07-2002 04:16 PM Post subject:
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Hogie wrote:
With one of the bigger account databases & character databases (maybe only 2nd to Eros?), I know how this is. I have been thinking about what I want from my server... I can't stand being on my server lately because all I get are petitions about leveling, or "can I be a gm?".
Glad, in a way, that I'm not the only ServerOP that has been doing this. I think there is a distinct social problem here. People expect that they have the right to demand GM status on an emulated server. I don't think that they do. Much for the same reasons that you listed.
I like to think the four points that have been discussed so far would help alleviate the problem, as I don't see any catch-all solution anywhere within the immediate vicinity.
--MV
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stormgod
Emu addict
Joined: 11 Apr 2002
Posts: 420
Posted: 05-07-2002 06:02 PM Post subject:
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I would NOT use the term EMULATED server anymore but FREE server , because its what they are.
and then maybe peeps will begin to understand , because right now they come here doing what they do for the emulation : come take , go.
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Drawde
World Builder
Joined: 19 Jan 2002
Posts: 519
Posted: 05-07-2002 09:23 PM Post subject:
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It's understandable I suppose that most people just want to #level 60, summon loads of high-level items and kill tough mobs, since they want to see things and use items/spells that you can't in EQLive without vast amounts of time and effort.
But I'm sure as EQEmu develops and becomes more complete and bug-free, more people will start playing it properly.
I am playing various characters "legit", starting at level 1 and only using items looted or purchased, but only offline, since it would be annoying to lose them all after a DB wipe (I have to rebuild my localhost DB every so often, but at least I know when it's going to happen )
Funny, Trumpcard, I enjoy playing low level characters far more as well, in most RPGs - it's much more fun when you have to travel through every zone warily, watching for lurking Ghouls or Orcs, and when every magic item or new spell you manage to find or buy is
a real treasure!
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Trumpcard
Developer
Joined: 22 Jan 2002
Posts: 2486
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posted: 05-08-2002 12:33 AM Post subject:
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I feel EXACTLY the same way... At the low levels when that quest sword that takes you from a 5/28 1 hander to a 6/27 one is a really exciting gain! The thrills come much faster , much easier than being at level 60, and having to get into massive raids to possibly see places youve never seen before, get any items of value you dont already have, and generally have to smooze with alot of elitiest aholes whose life revolves around the game..
Ive been playing since right after beta, I probably have 20 characters overall, 3 of which are above level 30. The game really stops being fun for me when you cant do decent quests, or where you have to invest massive amounts of time to do anything.. I think a big part of the low levels is the pace is a bit faster, and the rewards seem to be more tangible..
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Ryozu
Newbie
Joined: 16 Feb 2002
Posts: 20
Posted: 05-08-2002 08:09 AM Post subject:
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A roleplaying game is only a roleplaying game when the game system encourages roleplaying. Same goes for community things.
It's a social problem, one that can be corrected with encouragement, and a more feature rich and bug-less server software.
Personally, I consider the whole invest time to level a character thing a huge hassle. As a server-op/Dev team guy (I'm not, just supposing though) I'd rework the code to a hybrid skill system. All levels would require the same amount of exp(Not to sure, but the EXP curve could be changed), level cap would be heightened. Instead of gaining higher skill caps when you level, you would be given training points, you would use those training points to then train skills. Skills wouldn't go up from use, and there would be no level cap (So if someone wanted to train strictly defense, they could. Choosing a class simply limits which skills you would have access to. As an option, perhaps once you have leveled to 100 (or whatever level cap is set) you can have the character re-incarnate as whatever other class they choose.
And of course, there's the whole removing the #summonitem and other such commands from standard user access level.
Why go through all that trouble? Well, the Uber-Me's are all after that little Uber experiance that they can't get from EQLive. Having a system where #level 60 isn't at all like being level 60 at EQLive discourages them from going to your server specifically for that Hit of Uber. I also agree with the whole new Item database idea.
Shift focus from uber-me to building community.
Just an idea, of course.
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Stud
Newbie
Joined: 19 Jan 2002
Posts: 44
Posted: 05-08-2002 06:07 PM Post subject:
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As ServerOP of Eros, here's just some interesting tidbits to add to the equation.
1410 Accounts Registered
3417 Chars
I can't say as I've spent the time analyzing the player base, that you all have to try and find out what they are hungry for....but, in addition to the quick "Uber" hit, a surprising number of players are driven to try and excel as much as possible beyond that, with one player reaching level 74 by his own accord above and beyond the level 60 insta-hit.
I have tried to have it so that there is one player with GM flag on at all times even if you don't know they are there (although I'm not sure that that is still the case as I haven't had the time to watch as closely as I was) . The "levelme" zone and mob were set up to assist folks to their "Uberness" when a GM is not on, and also to leave the GM's free to do other things besides level people.
I have also continued to leave #setskill all as a regular user command, and have not set any players as PU or VPU since version 0.1.7 or so.
Originally I was flooded with the same "Can I be GM" requests that you all have seen, but those have come to halt. Why , I'm not sure exactly, perhaps folks are sick of asking and being told no, or because the ability to have their level raised and set their skills are there and that is enough, but for whatever reason it is definately for the better.
In addition, over the course of time, I've had some outstanding GM's come and go along the way. Some former VI guides and GM's, others who have just always wanted to be, but there is definately a hunger for a "live event" over canned content. Much like a DJ at a club is wanted and not recorded tapes.
Lastly there is strong drive to differentiate the character from the rest, whether it be to have their char show that he is level 62 in the who list, when most of the others just show 60 or 61, or to have a special title, item, or guild, there is just an overwhelming desire to be "unique".
The way Eros is now, is nothing like I plan on it being in the future, but the way it is now, gives me a chance to watch server performance/connection issues, DB performance, as well as get accustomed to what I will and wont be able to easily customise and tailor down the road as it develops into the gaming experience I am out to deliver.
Eros will be changing not too far down the road, little by little, not going to say how exactly here...but we shall see, might be a lot of people looking for a new place to play, or perhaps not, but code is beginning to show signs of stablizing enough to pursue the beginning aspects of what I am out for.
Malevolent, Hogie, Trumpcard rescued from prunning ;)
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