Past, Present and Future

[Doodman]

I just wanted to post about the event over the last few weeks in regards to the stability (or lack thereof) of the site and the login server.

The site and loginserver were running pretty well over the last few months or more until a few weeks ago. Starting the the site was completely unusable and the loginserver was crashing all the time. Seems odd that after months of running well it all fell apart.

The site was being hammered by numerous bots (bad bots, ignoring robots.txt, etc) and was slaughtering the site. I spent a lot of time over the last couple of weeks watching logs, banning IPs and implementing defenses against the attacks. I finally resorted to, as I'm sure you noticed, making the forums require logging to even be viewed. This seemed to turn the tide for the site.

The loginserver was running pretty well for a long time, until someone in the community found a buffer overrun bug in the loginserver and decided to exploit the fact that they could make it crash. It wasn't a random crash. It was crashing in the same spot, from the same user, sending the same information. I hastily implemented a fix to prevent the attack, which ended up fixing the issue but introducing the "incorrect password" issue that was seen for a day or so. That is also now fixed. The login server has been up (except for a restart by me) w/o crash for day in a half. Which, sadly, considering the past few weeks is quite a bit.

During this time (mainly because of the DoS attack) it became painfully obvious that the box we signed up for 2 years about is showing its age. The machine is was undersized as far as CPU and RAM and badly need to be upgraded to newer hardware.

We've asked KLS to investigate a new server (based on donations) and to take the lead in being responsible for the server. The rationale here is several-fold.

1) I don't do anything with EQEmu except some minor maintenance on the server.
2) I'm too busy with other things to give it the attention it needs
3) Since I don't do anything with EQEmu, I'm done footing the bill personally.

I know people are frustrated with the level of service over the last few weeks (or more). Trust me, so am I. I did what I could to keep it under control when it was happening and it seems to have paid off.

I know an alternate loginserver has been offered and, frankly, I don't blame anyone who moves to that server. I think it is a bad idea to have two separate loginservers, but there is nothing I can or will do about it. You are free to make your own choices.

I won't speak for the other admins, but I'm not going anywhere. It's just the time for changing of the guards.

I'll be here if needed and will do what I can to help support the project. Even though I don't work with EQEmu anymore, my heart still belong to EQ and EQEmu. Feel free to PM me or catch me on IRC is you need anything.

[trevius]

Doodman? Who's that? JK!

Thanks for the update, Doodman. It does appear that some of the most recent changes you made did have a positive impact on performance. Hopefully it will be enough to keep things running smooth until the transition of ownership happens. There seems to be multiple options for solutions popping up and I am sure we should have things finalized soon enough.

With the new Login Server alternative that was introduced last night by Image and Devn00b, it brings new options for the community, which can have positive and negative affects depending on how things are handled from here. I think that once the new hosting of the current LS is in place, there will be little need for an alternative one. But, if both teams worked together, it might be possible to create code that allows servers to connect to both Login Servers at the same time and if done right, they could maybe even use the same accounts from either LS.

I think the best option would be to adjust the new Mini-Login (also provided by Image and Devn00b last night) to be usable by public servers as a backup for if/when the primary LS goes down for any reason. This too would require allowing the server code to be able to stay connected to 2 Login Servers at a time. They would stay connected to the public one when it is up and also would always remain connected to their own Private LS as a backup option. Then, players would be able to log into the server from the Public LS and once in game, they could use a new command (something like #setpassword) to set a password to be associated with their account for use from the Private LS connection. Then, the private LS would have direct access to the Server's accounts table and would authenticate via the username and password set there. This password could be stored as MD5 to reduce server admins being able to read people's account passwords easily, but it would also be recommended that they set it to something other than their public LS password for security reasons.

With the addition of the new LS option, and the move of the current LS to new ownership, that will be 2 options for Public Login Servers. IMO, It is definitely a bad idea to split the project and have 2 completely separate LS's. That would mean that accounts on the current LS would not work on the new one and visa versa. Which means people would have to chose one and stick with it. Hopefully there can be a good solution to this issue. I do think that a mirror backup of the LS would be a great idea if it was possible. That would mean that both would run on a sync'd database and the same accounts would work for either public Login Server. Though, I think there are probably some issues with setting something like that up, one of them maybe being security reasons.

Either way, I think as long as people can remain patient and we can all discuss our options openly without getting into big arguments, the new changes will be nothing but positive for the project. Once things are finalized, the Login Server will be at the bottom of our concerns list and things can go back to business as usual. Then, we can all go back to working towards a better emulator, adding new features, fixing bugs, and having a great place for this great community

BTW, Doodman, I wanted to personally thank you for paying for the hosting of the LS all of this time. Without the public LS, this project wouldn't be what it is today. Even though there have been valid reasons to make complaints about it for a while now, it was at least tolerable for a long time before that all started. I am sure that most of the feedback you ever heard was negative, but that is only because people are more likely to voice themselves when they are unhappy than when they are content. Too keep paying a bill like that month after month with little thanks is definitely something worth appreciation. So, thanks!

[Sylaei]

Doodman, I just wanted to add my 2 cents to Trevius'. I thought the LS was being hosted for free, and part of the problem was being unable to complain about the service because it was free. I have read your post on the main eqemu site, and wanted to Thank you for, paying for it, and for fixing it.

[Ikeren]

I hastily implemented a fix to prevent the attack, which ended up fixing the issue but introducing the "incorrect password" issue that was seen for a day or so. That is also now fixed. The login server has been up (except for a restart by me) w/o crash for day in a half. Which, sadly, considering the past few weeks is quite a bit.

The incorrect password issue is running right now on 3 of my accounts and the login server is down. I'm not complaining; but so you know, the problems cropped up again.

[KLS]

In case anyone's wondering why I took donations down or want any kind of update. I didn't feel the transfer was going fast enough and felt bad to continue taking people's money and be able to give them nothing to show for it right now. We got quite a bit, wont cover a whole year but it will cover most of a year I estimate.

We're busy currently trying to contact our current host and will decide if it's practical to just upgrade the server or move to a new one, so hopefully we will begin a transfer or upgrade soon.

[trevius]

Thanks for the update, KLS! I know this is a rough situation right now from many angles. I am sure everyone will be happy when it is all over and taken care of. Once the change of ownership happens, make sure to get those donations setup again so we can ensure that we won't have to worry about hosting again for a long time, if ever. It probably wouldn't take long before people stopped donating once the LS is stable again, so we might as well get what we can up-front. Otherwise, we would probably have to be asking for donations more often throughout the year, which is something that would be nice to be able to avoid for everyone's sake

[devn00b]

Originally Posted by KLS

In case anyone's wondering why I took donations down or want any kind of update. I didn't feel the transfer was going fast enough and felt bad to continue taking people's money and be able to give them nothing to show for it right now. We got quite a bit, wont cover a whole year but it will cover most of a year I estimate.

We're busy currently trying to contact our current host and will decide if it's practical to just upgrade the server or move to a new one, so hopefully we will begin a transfer or upgrade soon.

Not sure whats the hold up of contacting the current host. I can request a server upgrade and get it within 24hours. So whats the hold up?

I can call my host say hey how much for xyz, then call the next company and ask the same. that takes what 20mins. Another day to decide at most. Shouldn't take a month to get this resolved.

[KLS]

If I were able to do it, it would be done. I have to work with other people who have commitments other than the project.

[devn00b]

Originally Posted by KLS

If I were able to do it, it would be done. I have to work with other people who have commitments other than the project.

Fair enough thank you KLS for the answer.

[trevius]

Devn00b, if I wasn't personally against deleting posts, I would probably have deleted that first one you made in this thread.

What concern is the Official LS of yours other than as a competitor to your new Public LS alternative?

By "contacting our current host", I am sure KLS means Doodman. He isn't on a 24X7 contact schedule. The people making the decisions are in the process of figuring out the best possible solution. If that takes a few days or even a couple of weeks to make sure that we get the best solution, then that is perfectly fine with me. There is no reason to make hasty decisions that will be regretted later.

Sure, setting up a brand new site with no posts, forums, wiki, LS, etc to move from a previous host is quick and simple, but when you have to move stuff designed around old software and services, it is going to take work and time no matter what. If they have an option to use the current host with nice upgrades, then that would prevent them from having to do the extra work to move it. But, is it even possible to get all of the upgrades necessary to resolve the current issues with the emu, or would we be better off just moving it? Those are some big questions that take time to consider and discuss with multiple people who aren't all on the same schedule. I am sure there are plenty of other things that I didn't even mention that need to be considered.

Yes, there are issues with the current hosting for the Official LS. They will be worked out soon enough, so there isn't any reason to get offensive about it.

I don't think anyone on the EQEmu team has any problem with the new LS by Devn00b and Image, but I also think we are all getting very tired of you putting us down to try to make yourselves look better. There is just no need for it and I am sure it won't be tolerated much longer if it keeps up. We already stated clearly that we don't want your advertisements for your unaffiliated Login Server anywhere other than in Off-Topic where they belong. To keep putting down the official one and mentioning how much better yours is, is essentially a cheap way of advertising for it. So, please stop it.

I am not wanting to start any drama here, but in order to keep the peace, would you please just stop the posts about it completely? If you really must mention or discuss your new LS, please do so in off-topic only. There are already too many threads scattered across the boards in the past few days. It seems like every answer you give has some promo for your LS in it.

Randomnoob001 Question: Hey, I am having a problem with my video slowing down and speeding up.

Devn00b/Image Answer: That is because the EQEmu Login Server sucks. You should switch to our far superior one!

Exaggerated a little, but it isn't all that far off-base, sadly :P

Again, I am not trying to start drama here, but in order to stop this before it gets out of hand, I think this needed to be said. BTW, if one of the admin's thinks this post is out-of-line, then feel free to delete it and I apologize.

[image]

Thats not fair I didn't say anything that wasn't in sarcasm.

[devn00b]

Originally Posted by trevius

Devn00b, if I wasn't personally against deleting posts, I would probably have deleted that first one you made in this thread.

What concern is the Official LS of yours other than as a competitor to your new Public LS alternative?

By "contacting our current host", I am sure KLS means Doodman. He isn't on a 24X7 contact schedule. The people making the decisions are in the process of figuring out the best possible solution. If that takes a few days or even a couple of weeks to make sure that we get the best solution, then that is perfectly fine with me. There is no reason to make hasty decisions that will be regretted later.

Sure, setting up a brand new site with no posts, forums, wiki, LS, etc to move from a previous host is quick and simple, but when you have to move stuff designed around old software and services, it is going to take work and time no matter what. If they have an option to use the current host with nice upgrades, then that would prevent them from having to do the extra work to move it. But, is it even possible to get all of the upgrades necessary to resolve the current issues with the emu, or would we be better off just moving it? Those are some big questions that take time to consider and discuss with multiple people who aren't all on the same schedule. I am sure there are plenty of other things that I didn't even mention that need to be considered.

Yes, there are issues with the current hosting for the Official LS. They will be worked out soon enough, so there isn't any reason to get offensive about it.

I don't think anyone on the EQEmu team has any problem with the new LS by Devn00b and Image, but I also think we are all getting very tired of you putting us down to try to make yourselves look better. There is just no need for it and I am sure it won't be tolerated much longer if it keeps up. We already stated clearly that we don't want your advertisements for your unaffiliated Login Server anywhere other than in Off-Topic where they belong. To keep putting down the official one and mentioning how much better yours is, is essentially a cheap way of advertising for it. So, please stop it.

I am not wanting to start any drama here, but in order to keep the peace, would you please just stop the posts about it completely? If you really must mention or discuss your new LS, please do so in off-topic only. There are already too many threads scattered across the boards in the past few days. It seems like every answer you give has some promo for your LS in it.


Exaggerated a little, but it isn't all that far off-base, sadly :P

Again, I am not trying to start drama here, but in order to stop this before it gets out of hand, I think this needed to be said. BTW, if one of the admin's thinks this post is out-of-line, then feel free to delete it and I apologize.

See trevius, you forget how long I've been here. Ive had to move the site to a new host more times than you can imagine. Im more than familiar with it. The actual move only takes 24hrs, and maybe another 24 to get it setup fully. Don't take me for a fool, or forget who your speaking to. Ive been with this project since almost its inception.

My question was a simple one. She answered, and I thanked her. I dont remember asking you, or even mentioning your name so please stay out of it. I'm not sure what your problem is, I don't really care.

Where in my question did I promote my LS? Again I asked a simple question. No need for your post.

[trevius]

As I said, I am not trying to start drama. There are few things I hate more than drama on forums.

While you weren't directly promoting your LS in this particular thread, you did still manage to mention how speedy the response time is for your own hosting service.

Here are a few quotes from random threads with you putting down the Official LS and putting yours in the light (this is the type of stuff I am mostly talking about):

Its the same bug that image listed above. Only person that can fix it is Doodman. Our Loginserver doesn't have this issue.

Best bet is trying irc and hoping that doodman or rogean or KLS or someone is there that will fix it..but that's pretty hard.

It is a separate and full fledged login server. Image and myself run and maintain it. We give it much more attention than the official login server.

Still even with the downtime lastnight, our box has a much better uptime record than the current box and that is a fact that cannot be denied.

Times like these are when a 2nd login server is needed...Just sayin.

Oh yeah...and btw...ours is up =p

The whole problem with your guys plan is to run off donations. You know the project has tryed this before right? You know how it ended up? It ended up doodman paying $39 or whatever a month. Or Hogie...

Yes, we know there are issues with the current one, the team is in the process or correcting those issues for good. There is no reason to try to scare people away from the Official LS to get them to move to yours. It is nice to have the option available, but I think the EQEmu team needs to back our own LS. Once it is moved, we will finally have the control and stability to do so. Until then, I am trying to keep faith in the team up, so people know that thing will be working great soon enough.

And yes, I know you and Image have been around longer than almost anyone here and have contributed a ton. I won't pretend to know all of the history about where you guys disappeared off too (EQ2Emu maybe) for the past couple of years, or what happened to your admin tags. But, if you really have the best of the project in mind, you wouldn't put it down so much.

[WildcardX]

I wasn't going to post or say anything because I generally have better things to do than to engage the community clowns who are still allowed to post on these forums despite a history of trespasses....

BUT....

What I find amazingly rich is the notion that KLS or any of the current active developers in the community, who donate so much of their time, their energy, their creativity and their passion for this project and our community need to account for anything to the devnewbs of the world.

I'm not even going to go and rehash anything that happened in the past, instead, I'll be generous and limit my rant to his actions of only the last couple of weeks.

1. Launched DoS attacks on the community's public login server, depriving EVERYONE the ability to simply come home and play their favorite video game.

2. Whined, complained and bitched when Doodman, Rogean, FNW decided to pass stewardship of the project and community to KLS, a person they decided they could trust and who has, indeed, earned the respect and trust of the whole community.

3. Launched malformed packet attacks against PEQ and other game servers who haven't decided to trust a well established hacker to service their game servers.

4. Suggest that KLS or anyone for that matter must account themselves to him.

So let me get this straight... Devnewb wants us to trust him enough to run our new community servers while he is, at the very same moment, attacking and degrading the performance of our existing servers? Really? That is just rich.

Then you run off to your friend and get him to write you a new LS so you can come back here post how clever you are and then you go after individual game servers if they don't use your LS? Really? That is just amazingly rich.

Now, as Doodman said, everyone in this community is free to make their own decisions and do as they please. If you believe you can trust devnewb with your server, your IP address, your passwords, your world database, then that is your choice.

I understand this is a frustrating time for everyone. I am as frustrated and fed up as all of you are. But the current active development team has been working together for 3 years now and we have a proven track record of trust, commitment and a desire to make the game as open as possible and as great as we can make it.

So know this. We at PEQ and those who are active here will launch the new servers and we will bring stability to the public login server.

Know this also. And here I am speaking for only myself. I will not work with devnewb or any other hacker-developer-script-kiddie on any project and especially not the public login server. PERIOD.

Now I am 10000% certain that devnewb is going to post some crazy rant about this, that and what ever else he can drain out of his toilet, but at the end of the day I am a developer that has been around for the last 3+ years, contributing code and making our server better than I found it. Devnewb has recently crawled back on to the forums from under his rock and has instead decided to focus on destroying what we have built, what you all enjoy to play.... instead of choosing to make a positive contribution.

This will be my last post where I lower my self to address a tolerated community hacker.

[devn00b]

Right so now let me get this straight, I can't discuss the LS? this a new rule?

I cant tell people to try and contact admins so they can do their job and admin? If this is a new rule it should be added and everyone has to follow it. Not just me.

Not one thing I posted was incorrect, or a Lie. You don't have to like what I say, or Accept it, however I have followed the rules. So either change the rules or get off my case.