Faction Cap Issue

[AsmoTiC]

Did a search and didn't find anything apparent. Was an old thread back in 2014 with a similar issue, but no replies.

My issue is with how Faction is being calculated, is there a work around or does something need to be fixed at the code level?

Using Claws of Veeshan faction as an example. I have an Ogre Warrior, with max CoV faction (your faction can't possibly get any better). When using /con on CoV NPC's, he reports back Warmly. Same group, same max faction, I have a Dark Elf Cleric (Innoruuk). She reports Ally.

Checking the db, they both have 1450 faction with CoV. Now digging a little deeper the faction data for CoV (ID 42) has a base of -250. This will make sure that everyone starts off Dubiously to them. In addition, a couple races/dieties have additional modifiers. Not listing each, the Cleric in my example is unaffected by race/diety, the Warrior however gets a -150 Mod and -400 Effective faction for being an Ogre. He's agnostic, so doesn't get hit with an additional Rallos Zek modifier, which would compound this problem.

Seems to me, somewhere the math is broken. You'd assume the Ogre Warrior would be punished with the addition reduction in faction, and have to work harder to hit Ally, but would eventually get there. The Cleric would just get there sooner.

So with all that explanation, is this a known issue? Is there a work around?

Only thing i've found is a line in the features header file (features.h) that sets MAX_PERSONAL_FACTION 1200. Seems like raising that would solve the problem, but i'd rather not deviate my code from whats on Git. I don't have a really firm handle on cpp, I know enough to get myself into trouble, so skimming through the faction.cpp file I can find where the calculation is being done, but not entirely sure if it's the formula that needs to be adjusted, or something else. Like I said though, i'd rather not modify my code from whats on Git.

Anyway, thanks for reading my ramblings, and any help or suggestions given.

[joligario]

Most recent modification by the mastermind behind the faction overhaul is here: https://github.com/EQEmu/Server/comm...f169646ec2a3e5

[AsmoTiC]

That's perfect joligario, thanks for the link! I'll grab the file and recompile my server.

Is there a reason this fix/patch doesn't come across with a git pull? I did a new pull and compile yesterday for the new bot command changes. This being Feb. 2015, i'd have expected it to come across.

Appreciate it again, thank you!

[AsmoTiC]

One more quick comment/problem.

I was about to pull the above mentioned client.cpp and client.h files down and recompile everything. I checked these two against the current files on Git (which is what I have in my source directory). Looks like all the changes put into place back in Feb. 2015 (the above mentioned files) are in the latest Git, as well as what i'm using to compile the server.

One quick note. As a quick test, I forced the Ogre to 1550 in the DB, zoned, and checked a CoV mob. Mob after zoning shows up as Ally. Turn in a quest, receive +75 CoV faction. Con the same NPC, and i'm back to warmly. Check the DB and see that he's been put to 1450 (assuming that's the max).

Any thoughts, reason why i'm still seeing problems?

(Oh, and I should note since these are client files where the fix was placed. I'm using the RoF2 client)

*edit* - Just to help with troubleshooting. I did a clean clone of the git repository, clean cmake, clean build. Went into the DB and lowered his CoV faction to 1449. Killed a guard in Kael worth 15 CoV faction, and checked his faction in the DB, which was now 1450. Killed something else, and got the similar message about CoV can't possibly get any better.

[joligario]

Yes, those changes were active back in Feb 15. The reduction is most likely because you are over the max when the next faction +/- update. I'm not up to speed on the new calculations, but Noudess wanted to hear any issues with the changes. Recommend in addition to this thread, create an issue in git and reference those changes as well as this post.

[AsmoTiC]

Thanks again joligario for the advice, and taking a look at the problem.

I submitted an issue via Git as recommended. Appreciate it!

[infiniteclouds]

Hello gentlemen,

I just wanted to share what I've noticed about faction and hope to get some feedback.

The way modifiers are working seems off to me. On Live, your modifiers set your 0 mark and you can go +/- 2000 in either direction from there, that is all. No further rules or complications. If your modifiers put you at 0, you can achieve +2000 and bottom out at -2000. If they put you at -1000 you can achieve +1000 and bottom out at -3000.

On EQEmu I'm noticing the following...

-Modifiers seem to just set your starting point along the -2000 to +2000 but this is not your 0.

- As a result the number of faction hits you can get VARIES depending upon where you start. Modifiers put you at +800? You can gain +1200, and lose -2800. If you start at -1200 you can lose -800, and gain +3200, etc. Rather than a fixed +/- 2000, your possible personal faction gains/losses are varied. This also means that no matter where you start from your modifiers you can achieve +2000 cap UNLESS....

- If your modifiers put you BELOW -2000 then the difference between your modifier and -2000 will be taken off of your max possible faction. So for example, if you take a faction, set Dark Elf to -1500, and Necromancer to -1500, a Dark Elf Necromancer will cap on this faction at +1000. Basically, you have a maximum of +4000 personal gains possible - you can go from -2000 to +2000, -3000 to +1000, etc. I specify possible maximum because if you start at +800 from modifiers you can only gain +1200 and will cap at +2000.

This makes it impossible to replicate the faction caps that certain race/class/deity combos had for certain factions.

A Half Elf Rogue of Tunare starts at Scowls at maxes at Amiably with the Dreadguard Inner of Neriak. Assuming your Amiably consider is at highest +450 then to replicate this, one or a combination of these modifiers would have to start her at something like -3550 (since she can gain +4000 hits.)

Dark Elf Rogues start at indifferent, and an enchanter of tunare in dark elf illusion considers threateningly not scowls, so Tunare modifier alone cannot put you that low. Half Elves of other deities or agnostic can achieve Ally, so that modifier can't be tanked too harsh enough to achieve this either.

On live, it works because it is simply a matter of having half elf and tunare modifiers put you -2000 below Amiably con.

This is also why you might notice that on if you start low enough to a faction on the EMU you will reach 'could not possibly get any worse' after a few kills. As it should be, no matter where you start you should be able to go -2000 below that, and no more than +2000 above.

Thanks for reading and thank you very much for all of the work you do.

[AsmoTiC]

Yea, I agree that some race/class/deity combos max you at certain levels on live. However the 3 main Velious factions on live would always let everyone get to ally. An ogre warrior of rallos zek could be ally with claws of veeshan, then turn around an grind the giants up to ally trashing cov. Same with an agnostic human enchanter.

Seems like Sony/DBG adjusted each factions max on a case by case basis. Making it so perhaps the ogre has a longer grind than the human, but both capable of making it in the end. This would account for an ogre warrior of zek not ever getting to ally with Qeynos for example.

Not sure how that translates to Emu. Seems like we are a one size fits all, which is okay in most cases. I'm just experiencing an issue with the Velious factions specifically.

[infiniteclouds]

I just read your first post (I accidently started reading on your 2nd) and I am confused because what I've experienced is completely contrary to your example. Your server must be working with very different ranges too since you're maxed at 1450, before any modifiers.

What are the faction ranges for Scowls, Threateningly, Dubious, etc set to on the server you set up?

On live if you were -800 to CoV (-250 base, -150 Warrior, -400 Ogre) you would cap at 1200 faction, which would fall in the Ally range.

[AsmoTiC]

Odd. I'm using unmodified code from the Git Repo. Servers been running for probabaly 2 months. Yesterday I even re-cloned my source folder, just to make sure I had everything at the most current, and re-compiled the code base. I verified that the ranges haven't been adjusted.

1101+ Ally
701 to 1100 Warmly
401 to 700 Kindly
101 to 400 Amiable
0 to 100 Indifferently
-100 to -1 Apprehensively
-700 to -101 Dubiously
-999 to -701 Threateningly
-1000 Ready to Attack

Claws of Veeshan has a base -250
Ogre Mod -150 Effective Faction -400
Cazic-Thule Mod -250 Effective Faction -500
Karana Mod -250 Effective Faction -500
(Only listed the Mods that affect this example group)

Coldain has a base -100
Ogre Mod -250 Effective Faction -350
Cazic-Thule Mod -350 Effective Faction -450
(Only listed the Mods that affect this example group)

Everyone in the DB has 1450 CoV, and 1300 Coldain.
Everyone reports faction can't possibly get better.
Ogre Warrior (Agnostic) - Warmly CoV, Warmly Coldain
Dark Elf Cleric (Inny) - Ally CoV, Ally Coldain
Half-Elf Bard (Agnostic) - Ally CoV, Ally Coldain
Dark Elf Enchanter (Agnostic), Ally CoV, Ally Coldain
Halfling Druid (Karana) - Warmly CoV, Ally Coldain
Iksar Monk (Cazic-Thule) - Warmly CoV, Warmly Coldain

Essentially it looks like they are earning up to some cap based of faction, and then the Effective Faction is skimmed off the top after the fact. Problem is, at least for the Velious factions where Ally is required to complete HoT quests, and armor turn-ins. That would mean, a sizable chunk of the player base wouldn't be able to complete quests. I seam to recall having Ogre Warriors on live be able to complete skyshrine and halls of testing quests.

[AsmoTiC]

Sorry for the post spam on this, but wanted to add one more thing.

I have an 86 Iksar Monk (Cazic-Thule) on live, so went to Kael and spent an hour and a half murdering the entire place until my CoV could not possibly get any better.

Ran over to Skyshrine and con'd the entry Velium Sentry's and a couple of the drakes that float around and get "Regards you as an ally". On Emu, this would have reported as Warmly given the same conditions. (ie. Iksar Monk of CT, with max CoV faction).

Just a little further information on the problem.

Post Count++

[noudess]

I'll spend some time reviewing what everyone has said and reply with my feelings on this. I did the faction changes some time ago, it will take me a bit to get back up to speed and reply intelligently.

In the meantime, review this http://wiki.eqemulator.org/p?Faction_Overview. I haven't processed all of what you guys are saying yet, but I will address it and we'll come to a resolution.

[demonstar55]

Originally Posted by noudess

I'll spend some time reviewing what everyone has said and reply with my feelings on this. I did the faction changes some time ago, it will take me a bit to get back up to speed and reply intelligently.

In the meantime, review this http://wiki.eqemulator.org/p?Faction_Overview. I haven't processed all of what you guys are saying yet, but I will address it and we'll come to a resolution.

Gory did some experimenting on the peq forums. He tested with the bone chip quest and no matter the starting faction always got +/-2000 hits. He did some more tests to verify that the ranges are at least still the same distance between each other (which indicates the faction values are still the same as the ones that can be dumped from older clients)

[noudess]

Can you run the stored procedure pointed to by the wiki I linked for the character in question? Post the resulting table and we can discuss what to do.

Originally Posted by AsmoTiC

Odd. I'm using unmodified code from the Git Repo. Servers been running for probabaly 2 months. Yesterday I even re-cloned my source folder, just to make sure I had everything at the most current, and re-compiled the code base. I verified that the ranges haven't been adjusted.

1101+ Ally
701 to 1100 Warmly
401 to 700 Kindly
101 to 400 Amiable
0 to 100 Indifferently
-100 to -1 Apprehensively
-700 to -101 Dubiously
-999 to -701 Threateningly
-1000 Ready to Attack

Claws of Veeshan has a base -250
Ogre Mod -150 Effective Faction -400
Cazic-Thule Mod -250 Effective Faction -500
Karana Mod -250 Effective Faction -500
(Only listed the Mods that affect this example group)

Coldain has a base -100
Ogre Mod -250 Effective Faction -350
Cazic-Thule Mod -350 Effective Faction -450
(Only listed the Mods that affect this example group)

Everyone in the DB has 1450 CoV, and 1300 Coldain.
Everyone reports faction can't possibly get better.
Ogre Warrior (Agnostic) - Warmly CoV, Warmly Coldain
Dark Elf Cleric (Inny) - Ally CoV, Ally Coldain
Half-Elf Bard (Agnostic) - Ally CoV, Ally Coldain
Dark Elf Enchanter (Agnostic), Ally CoV, Ally Coldain
Halfling Druid (Karana) - Warmly CoV, Ally Coldain
Iksar Monk (Cazic-Thule) - Warmly CoV, Warmly Coldain

Essentially it looks like they are earning up to some cap based of faction, and then the Effective Faction is skimmed off the top after the fact. Problem is, at least for the Velious factions where Ally is required to complete HoT quests, and armor turn-ins. That would mean, a sizable chunk of the player base wouldn't be able to complete quests. I seam to recall having Ogre Warriors on live be able to complete skyshrine and halls of testing quests.

[noudess]

Min/Max personal faction changed to -2000/2000 and in the baseline now.