Simple Client Status

[Windcatcher]

Yeah I talked with him on IRC a few days ago. He's working on a rewrite, so maybe the thing to do is wait to see what he comes up with.

[Windcatcher]

Originally Posted by Teppen

guess im not worthy enough to code the simplePatcher or be a dev in your little beta click. think ill just stay on the peq team (where any coders and devs are welcome). I signed up here back in 2002 just like you, was member of hackerquest before eqemulator even existed, and yet you take in people who joined in 2005, 2006, etc, but not someone who has been here as long as you? that alone is a slap in the face. i wont download something after i offer a hand (in coding or development) to help a project and someone slaps it away. best wishes on your project, me and my 15+ years of programming applications will go elsewhere. this is my last post on this thread so dont bother even posting a counter to my post.

no offense to other devs on the "closed" beta simpleClient project, guess there was a time limit on dev applications which is sad.

good day to you sir !

WTF?

Since when did I ever give anyone the indication that involvement with SimpleClient involves some sort of seniority-based pecking order? Since when did I give the impression that length-of-stay in this community grants one the right to test anything I produce? Since when does length-of-stay mean anything to me? Now do we really want to talk about childishness? "I've been here longer than THOSE people!" Good grief. Cry me a river. I believe in rewarding based on merit, not seniority (and since when am I obligated to reward anyone? Since when do you even need me to do it?)

And, for that matter, since when did I slap anyone in the face? Since when am I the gatekeeper for contributing anything toward the client effort? If you want to write a patcher, then write one -- it's not as if I can stop you, and, to be blunt, it's not as if I care one way or the other whether you do so or not. I'm not obligated to respond one way or the other (and, believe it or not, I do have other activities that consume my time outside EQEmu). Frankly, I'm getting a bit tired of trying to motivate everyone I come across; sometimes I like to sit back and see if people can motivate themselves to contribute.

Sheesh.

By the way, you're not the only one working on a patcher -- maybe, just MAYBE, mind you, I didn't BEG you to write one because I didn't want you to waste your time. Maybe I wanted to wait to see what the other effort would produce, as I'm led to believe it's much farther along. We do need a patcher, but we don't need *two*. I've deliberately washed my hands of the patcher effort, save to point out that one is needed. I don't recall signing myself up as the manager of the SiimpleClient Patcher Project. Feel free to nominate yourself, and more power to you. I'm not God on these forums, never was, and I don't wish to be. Frankly, I'm pretty darned surprised that you're angry that I didn't give you my blessing. One, I'm not obligated to do so, and two, you don't need one from me in the first place!

The beta is closed for several reasons. The reasons are completely arbitrary, decided by me. When you write a client, then you can set your own rules. I want the testing closed to:

1. Control bug submissions. A small team of dedicated testers is simply easier for me to work with. The LAST thing I need is tons of people reporting the same bug over and over. If someone wants to design an entire website with automated bug-handling features, and administer it, then we can talk about opening the testing process up. As long as I'm a one-man band, this is the way it has to be.

2. Hopefully better protect test servers. I don't need teenage hackers trying to take down beta-test servers because they're sexually frustrated, and the people hosting testing servers for me surely don't need it. The client is simply not ready for a hostile environment yet. Testing has barely begun, and as far as I can tell, it's focused entirely on gameplay so far.

3. Better focus the testing. SimpleClient is all about customization, so I want to make sure that serious zone builders are able to test with it. This doesn't mean everyone who has downloaded OpenZone, but those who in my capricious opinion have demonstrated both the ability and dedication to create zones that people will actually want to play in (read: zones that server operators will use once everything goes live).

For those of you who want to build zones but aren't testing the client, it's not an insult -- we need to keep the testers to a reasonable level and I picked a few. My choices are arbitrary and capricious -- go sailing for a week and you'll see what I mean. I want to see the client improve and go live, but it means that I need it tested in such a way that I'm not overwhelmed by the process. I wrote it, and as far as I'm concerned, it's my right to choose who I let play with it. So I picked some people with whom I'm familiar. If someone comes along and asks to test it, I might add him or I might not. There are no rules -- I simply make a judgment call based on whether I think it would be a good idea. Nothing personal, whatsoever. You don't know me, so don't pretend to. I have less tolerance than most for childish games and I don't play them. Is this process perfect? Hell, no, but we're all doing this in our spare time and I have no right to complain. Neither does anyone else, in my opinion.

EDIT: If someone has a better idea for a testing process, I'm all ears. Please propose one. As long as it doesn't require administration on my part, I'm open to suggestions. If someone simply wants to complain, "your process is teh suk!", then I can't help you.

[Scorpious2k]

OMG!!! KHAN!!!

So good to see you back!

We need to talk...

Originally Posted by KhaN

I think you totally misunderstood WC ... he is not against a patcher for SimpleClient (And i will add having a 'real' patcher would be nice), he is just saying he doesnt have the time to code one~

Again, a real patcher that wouldnt require an exe to run on server (using timestamp for example) would be a really nice add to simpleclient, now, to code one, it doesnt require simpleclient exe or files :p

I think you would want to use CRC instead of timestamps, unless the patcher sets the timestamp on the client side. I have seen them be a little different for the same version of the program before.

[KhaN]

Originally Posted by Scorpious2k

OMG!!! KHAN!!!

So good to see you back!

We need to talk...

Yo~
Im sort of back yeah :p

[Scorpious2k]

Originally Posted by KhaN

Yo~
Im sort of back yeah :p

I won't sidetrack the thread any more than it has been, but I wanted to welcome you back. The project has missed your contributions and presence.

[Sakrateri]

Back on topic here. WC let me know when you have had a chance to try those zones out with simpleclient and if you will want more. I know your busy so take your time.

[Angelox]

Trying to get this thread back to what it should be: a really great project.
Teppen; stop pissing off the boat bow! you getting yourself pissed, and all the rest of us too.

[Windcatcher]

Originally Posted by Sakrateri

Back on topic here. WC let me know when you have had a chance to try those zones out with simpleclient and if you will want more. I know your busy so take your time.

I tried them out in my zone explorer (see the ZoneExplorer thread) and they check out ok. I can try them in the client itself, but that requires DB work so I'd rather do that only if absolutely necessary. They show up great in ZoneExplorer, so I'm 99% confident they'll show up in the client as well (there is nearly complete code commonality between the two).

I've released the source to ZoneExplorer as there is really no harm in it. It only loads zones and lets you fly around them, as well as view objects. It's the sort of information that I think the community as a whole should have anyway.

[hallsofvallhalla]

I have been reading through the thread and I must say, friggn awesome job!

I currently am building my own MMORPG, somewhat like everquest, my graphics are better and hope to have alot more features..BUT anyways was wanting to help here in my spare time(the little I get). If you need a link to my project to see my work then PM me. I can model, Map, texture, code, blah blah and much more. I think being able to create your own worlds apon the Everquest engine is a great idea and would love to help in any way possible. I am new to the emu, set it up a while back but never really got any further, fixin to setup my own server for the devs of my project to all play on in the meantime.

Thanx for any responses and or where to get started.

[Windcatcher]

This whole discussion has made me revisit the idea of a closed beta and whether it's such a good thing. Cavedude and I worked it out informally, where he would host a server and I would send updates to his FTP site. The testing process has been somewhat spotty since it's been so informal, and perhaps we can do better. Do we want to try an open beta instead?

I'm open to suggestions (*especially* from devs), but here are my initial thoughts:

1. First, there MUST be a patcher. An open beta does us no good unless we can have some confidence that everyone is running the same version. Otherwise I foresee we'll be chasing our tails more often than not running down obsolete bugs. I know that Teppen was offering to write one -- but Cofruben already has one in the works (undergoing rewrite). I don't care either way, but if *the community* wants an open beta then a patcher is a prerequisite for it to be useful to those of us working on the client (who am I kidding -- at this point *I'm* the only one working on it...any Delphi devs out there?)

2. We'll need a server that's up all the time, and since the beta would be open it would be somewhat accountable to the community (I don't mean anything formal here, just pointing out that if it's down we would likely hear about it in short order on the forum). I can't provide this.

3. We'll have to decide on a server version, at least tentatively. That isn't too big a deal since SimpleClient supports several revisions between 0.5.5 and 0.6.0, but if we want to use something newer and/or want the beta server to evolve into a live one then we need to think it through a bit. SimpleClient requires a different netcode DLL to talk to 0.6.1 and newer servers, for instance, and I'll need help there if we want to take that route.

I've never run an open beta of anything before (and before this, a closed one either) so I'm definitely looking for guidance here. I don't consider SimpleClient all that robust yet, but it *is* a beta, after all, so it's one of those "use at your own risk" deals. In any case, I definitely *can't* manage this process as I'm swamped already as it is, but I do want this to get released to the general public at some point in a way that satisfies as many as possible. I'd especially like to hear from devs (current and former) as you probably know a lot more about managing a community project than I do.

EDIT: Since SimpleClient can talk to multiple server versions, there isn't anything saying that there has to be only one beta server, or even one beta server *version*...but the prospect makes me worry a bit about confusion among the player base. It's something else to discuss, I suppose.

I'm willing to discuss either here or on IRC, but I prefer it to be here since it's persistent and if there's one thing I've learned it's that it's best if the discussion be open. The agreement between Cavedude and I was worked out on IRC and, while we're well within our right to do that, it's led to confusion and some hard feelings that I'd just as soon avoid.

[Windcatcher]

Don't all reply at once...

Anyhow, here's another progress pic. I now have some fairly decent sky tinting...

Sunrise in Peshara Highlands



Also, the position of the sun/moon/sky are aware of the game day/month. This is a pic taken when it's June, so the sun rises a bit to the northeast, and will rise high in the sky. In January, of course, it rises to the southeast and never gets all that high (I have the latitude set at 42 degrees north). I added a /clouds on|off command and I turned the clouds off for this pic.

Here's another in the afternoon with the clouds on and set to high quality...



EDIT: I'm still making improvements; for instance this has a better sky sphere with increased detail at the horizon and some code to eliminate the fade-to-black at the horizon...



EDIT #2: Don't worry about the frame rates you see. I've since optimized sky-tinting and it's now in the 40's...

EDIT #3: The moon can cause sky-glow too, if it's near full...

[Sensu-Bean]

[QUOTE=1. First, there MUST be a patcher. An open beta does us no good unless we can have some confidence that everyone is running the same version. Otherwise I foresee we'll be chasing our tails more often than not running down obsolete bugs. I know that Teppen was offering to write one
[/QUOTE]

Teppen's been banned from eqemu forums. He also posted a farewell post over at projecteq forums and everyone there hated to see him leave. Dev's all posted that he was welcome back anytime, however that really depends on weither his account gets unbanned on here or not. He has been talking with mattmeck and is going to be contacting angelox soon. Until then you will have to wait on corfuben's rewrite, which Im sure will do the job nicely. Below is Teppens farewell post on projecteq, which by the way had nothing to do with your thread windcatcher.

http://www.projecteq.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3342

Nice screenshots by the way, it looks better and better with each post windcatcher.