P99 is the Slackware of EQEmu

MarcusD · #1 10-09-2015, 11:17 AM

We all know the story (or should know) about Linux and slackware. The gist is that everyone was using SLS Linux but it had a bunch of bugs. But it was open source and it was a revolution. But slackware improved SLS and got rid of lots of the bugs. That would be great, everything was open source so everyone was happy slackware improved SLS right? Wrong. Slackware made their changes closed source. This means that slackware took an open source project and killed it basically. They became a Microsoft.

Debian was pissed at what slackware did. They started debian as a truly open source Linux project. And now look at where things have gone. The community cornered and killed slackware because of their arrogant selfish schemes.

That's not to say that slackware is bad. Slackware is actually very good at what it does. But the Linux community was robust enough to undercut them for being selfish and not releasing the source.

Fast forward 10 years and EQEmu shows up. Open source revolution. P99 takes the database everyone is using at the time (probably) and fixes the 'bugs' (things being not classic, Sony introduced the bugs intentionally). And everyone was super happy right? EQemu is open source so the changes helped everyone right? Wrong. P99 made their changes closed source. This means P99 took an open source project and killed it basically. They became their own SOE.

Now the only part of the story that hasn't come true yet is that the robust EQEmu community undercuts and kills p99.

P99 is pretty good at what they do (except the fact they let high level zone disruptors run rampant probably because they are donators) But like Debian we have to muster up the huevos to say no its not ok they closed their source and we are going to do it better than you and take you out.

The way we do that, I believe, is to get the trilogy client working and make a new database hopefully from scratch to really be classic eq. This is my goal and I have a long way to go since I just barely got my first server up but it will happen eventually and since it is open source we can all contribute and never worry that once the P99 ship goes down everything we invested into helping them is lost forever.

Shendare · #2 10-09-2015, 11:56 AM

While an open source community would obviously want to keep everything open source, it's far from unheard of for someone to fork a project and not distribute their changes.

IMO, enmity is not the goal of community. We're all on the same team.

image · #3 10-09-2015, 12:16 PM

In my situation I actually prefer open source as well I think it is really what this project is all about, preserving it for everyone not a select few. The reason I took part in this project was because sony would no longer own the server and I knew that I could always use it long after EverQuest died (amazing how long it has lasted compared to other MMOs).

However there are people with different opinions here and that has to be respected, they do spend the time on it and it is their choice whether or not to release those changes to the public.

What you ask seems to be resonating quite a bit with others, but I would say that what is lacking is guidance/leadership in this area, which in one way or another helps p99 be what it is, it has a large team and they have a goal.

See this post which is pretty much what you are asking: http://www.eqemulator.org/forums/showthread.php?t=40028

Furniture · #4 10-09-2015, 12:31 PM

"This means that slackware took an open source project and killed it basically. They became a Microsoft.

"P99 is pretty good at what they do (except the fact they let high level zone disruptors run rampant probably because they are donators)"

LOL.

provocating · #5 10-09-2015, 12:58 PM

You have to also know that one size does not fit all. The classic changes I make to my server are not going to suit people running GoD based servers, same with my database.

AdrianD · #6 10-09-2015, 09:41 PM

I'm not going to pick at the specifics of your post, MarcusD, because the overall message is what is important.

I appreciate what image said in that what people do is their prerogative.

What people do is not always righteous.

The direction is simple, forward.

provocating · #7 10-09-2015, 11:07 PM

P99 has been around a good time now. With the amount of effort that goes into it, you would think Rogean and Nilbog would be extremely tired of managing it. Maybe I am wrong but eventually you would think they would want to get from under it. Most people do not understand the level of effort that goes into setting up and managing a server. Even a low population server can get overwhelming, I cannot imagine a server with a population that is constantly 1000+. My hat is off to that crew.

Just a random thought.

MarcusD · #8 10-10-2015, 11:31 AM

I agree I much prefer the BSD liscence which allows people to commercialize and close source any changes they make compared to Linux which now has to not only keep everything open source but the source has to be hosted at your own expense on a file server.

However that doesn't mean that we can't undercut such people who choose to take full liberty and close all source; like how fully open Debian far outshines closed Slackware today. The people hopefully will eventually learn their lesson that to build your dreams and have them last you need to be generous which is what this open source movement is all about.

Just fyi also there is this trilogy source. Not sure how well it works and with what databases. Also read the comments someone forked it and supposedly it works better. At some point I am going to try to build a server with the forked code and peq database and see what happens.

** LINK DELETED **

MarcusD · #9 10-10-2015, 11:45 AM

I was reading through that forum link someone provided and I think the direction we need to go is not too complicated. We start a file sharing thing like FTP or whatever where we all put our current progress. We don't need any more organization than that I feel. Someone could grab the files where we are at and make more changes. All it would need is a little readme file so everyone can record when they got it and from who and what changes they made. It may be a little messy but it's a start. And this way the project is super robust, no one could decide to close the source because there are so many 'snapshots' around the web.

Also don't take it wrong but my server is called 'NeverQuest' for a reason. I think we can totally neglect quests in our quest to bring EQ back to classic (and thus save a ton of work). I think the whole point of an mmo vs PC rpg's is that in an MMO you don't NEED quests. Ever. MMO was made to be free open world where your interaction with other players creates your goals. Has anyone else thought that?

provocating · #10 10-10-2015, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarcusD

totally neglect quests

Hold on a minute. You are saying the word classic and neglect quest in the same sentence. How in the hell is classic style Everquest not involving quest?

About 30% of my Mantis reports are involving broken quest. That means that players want quest that are complete. Players will rage quit when they spend days on a quest only to find it is broken.

**Drajor** · #11 10-10-2015, 01:43 PM

Quote:

you need to be generous which is what this open source movement is all about.

reference?

MarcusD · #12 10-10-2015, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drajor

reference?

The reference is if you close your source you are no longer a part of the open source community.

MarcusD · #13 10-10-2015, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by provocating

Hold on a minute. You are saying the word classic and neglect quest in the same sentence. How in the hell is classic style Everquest not involving quest?

About 30% of my Mantis reports are involving broken quest. That means that players want quest that are complete. Players will rage quit when they spend days on a quest only to find it is broken.

The key here is when something they expect isn't working they rage quit. If we tell them from the beginning quests were removed then it is expected.

Also personally I played eq in 99 and when someone told me (my best friend) to do the crushbone belt quest to get ez levels I laughed at them. I inherently knew this game was about earning things with blood and sweat. The only quests I feel are important to the classic experience are faction quests.

But I have only seen eq through my own eyes so what are your thoughts?

Edit: I never got above lvl 30 so I can imagine there are good quests later on for class specific items and whatnot. How about we could have those as GM quests? Ie; the person submits feedback that they got everything for their cultural armor or whatever and the GM themselves gives the player the item? I feel it is more interactive that way anyway.

provocating · #14 10-10-2015, 02:36 PM

My thoughts are quest are a part of Everquest Classic, so are corpse runs, slow travel and grinding. If you are talking about removing quest you are talking something custom and need to label your project that way from the start.

Quest are part of Everquest Classic. Period.

If this is all still in reference to the previous post about a classic Everquest project then you need to label that project clearly as something custom. You will get a lot of negativity from the purists if you even talk about removing quest or ignoring them.

**Uleat** · #15 10-10-2015, 04:08 PM

Please ensure that your comments are in compliance with the rules found here: http://www.eqemulator.org/forums/showthread.php?t=28924